Author Topic: EP258: Raising Jenny  (Read 51284 times)

Dave

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Reply #25 on: September 22, 2010, 12:55:10 AM
I remember reading this anthology when I was a kid. This story wasn't quite flashy enough to catch my attention then, but it's pretty good. I was frustrated with the protagonist for being such a hypocrite, but she learned in the end, and I guess that's good enough.

People still seem to be caught up in the idea that SF is about the trappings rather than the ideas. One "shock" (cloning) is all the lens you need to view the human condition from a new angle. Robots and laser guns not necessary.


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kibitzer

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Reply #26 on: September 22, 2010, 11:54:38 AM
On an unrelated note, I believe I'm one of the mere dozen people who has never seen It's a Wonderful Life.

I never have.


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Reply #27 on: September 22, 2010, 01:17:30 PM
On an unrelated note, I believe I'm one of the mere dozen people who has never seen It's a Wonderful Life.

I never have.

I've only seen clips, especially of the ending.



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Reply #28 on: September 22, 2010, 01:38:30 PM
Ok, it took me a while to get around to commenting on this one, for one simple reason: I have a lot of negative things to say.

I hate when that happens.

So, first of all - and maybe my vague elitism is showing here - I have a hard time believing in grown people who are stupid enough to believe that a clone will be in any meaningful sense the original. When Jenny One insists "you don't know that" and doctor-daughter admits "no, we don't," I wanted to scream at the radio - in fact, I think I did scream at the radio - "yes we do, you morons, we do!" There is absolutely no reason to believe that a clone will be the same person as the original. Similar in some ways, yes, but actually the original? No.

Maybe there are people this ignorant in the world, but if there are, I have a hard time connecting to them.

Secondly, I had a very hard time sympathizing with any of the characters except the daughter until the very end. When the mother laughed and said "mommies all the way back" I snickered and said "you mean selfish bitches all the way back." Jenny One was incredibly selfish and controlling and Adrian was no better. I thought Jenny One's attempt to dominate her children from beyond the grave was execrable and Adrian's reasons for having a child were dangerously self-centered. I'm glad the story didn't go there, but kind of surprised that Jenny Two didn't end up abused or neglected thanks to Adrian's deep and unresolved anger issues.

The ending redeemed this issue somewhat by dealing with it, but in a sense it was too little too late. Sure, Adrian got shown up and had to (finally) come face to face with the reality of her mediocre parenting - that's something all parents have to do, eventually, even the ones who weren't really mediocre parents :-\ - but I spent almost the entire story disliking her and actively wanting her to shut up, go to a shrink, or possibly get hit by a bus.

. . .

You know, on retrospect, I should probably admit that I had an extremely controlling mother. I moved to California (from New York!) after college to get away from her. Despite not being a clone of my dead grandfather, this story might have struck a chord with me. This is likewise a redeeming characteristic - strong reactions ~= good art - but not enough to tip me over into a positive review.

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Kaa

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Reply #29 on: September 22, 2010, 02:56:02 PM
I guess I'm sort of old-fashioned. I like stories--especially science fiction ones--to have...well, a PLOT. And while I don't mind character-driven stories, I like them to have at least some attempt at a plot.

This story failed on that point, and I kept having to 'rewind' to listen because my attention kept drifting. I finally had to skip it until I was in the car, captive, and unable to allow the 'drift.'

I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it, either. It was well-written, but...I guess just not my cup of klah.

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Talia

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Reply #30 on: September 22, 2010, 03:30:07 PM
?

I guess I don't get the "no plot" complaint, it pretty clearly has a plot to me - Adrian's having to come to terms with her upbringing in order to do the right thing by her kid.

Was the story action packed, no, but it definitely had conflict and a resolution going on...



Schreiber

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Reply #31 on: September 22, 2010, 05:14:51 PM
Jenny One was incredibly selfish and controlling and Adrian was no better...I spent almost the entire story disliking her and actively wanting her to shut up, go to a shrink, or possibly get hit by a bus.

So what you're saying is that Jenny only thought about Jenny but didn't think about Derwin? Jenifa, oh Jenny...

By the way, I can't believe I'm the only one who's going to stick up for poor Jimmy Stewart...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 05:19:51 PM by Schreiber »



Thunderscreech

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Reply #32 on: September 22, 2010, 06:10:04 PM
When I heard  "mommies all the way back", I thought "turtles all the way down".  Anyone else?



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Reply #33 on: September 22, 2010, 07:15:47 PM
When I heard  "mommies all the way back", I thought "turtles all the way down".  Anyone else?

hahahahaha, yes.



stePH

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Reply #34 on: September 22, 2010, 08:59:29 PM
When I heard  "mommies all the way back", I thought "turtles all the way down".  Anyone else?

Yuppers.

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alllie

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Reply #35 on: September 22, 2010, 10:54:09 PM
I think it would be more interesting and probably more rewarding to raise your own clone than that of a parent. We may love our parents but most of us don't really know them, not on a deep level. But if you raised a clone of yourself you would know what its (meaning his or her) strengths and weaknesses are, what it would need, maybe that it would do fine in math but need encouragement for those music lessons, and would have a chance to really excel if you made sure there was tutoring in chemistry. You would know, to some extent at least, what it should avoid and what it should seek out. You would have a better chance of helping your own clone reach its full genetic potential than the clone of a parent. You would be related to the clone of a parent to exactly the same degree as you would be related to your own natural child, and we see how often that doesn't work out.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 10:57:15 PM by alllie »



kibitzer

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Reply #36 on: September 23, 2010, 02:53:19 AM
I think it would be more interesting and probably more rewarding to raise your own clone than that of a parent.

Though it'd make for an interesting story, I find that idea unspeakably creepy. Blarg! I doubt I could restrain myself from trying to "correct" the "wrong" choices my clone made.


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Reply #37 on: September 23, 2010, 06:07:17 AM
When I heard  "mommies all the way back", I thought "turtles all the way down".  Anyone else?

Yes!

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alllie

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Reply #38 on: September 23, 2010, 11:35:27 AM
I think it would be more interesting and probably more rewarding to raise your own clone than that of a parent.

Though it'd make for an interesting story, I find that idea unspeakably creepy. Blarg! I doubt I could restrain myself from trying to "correct" the "wrong" choices my clone made.

Yes, but parents do that anyway. All the time. At least with a clone you would have a greater likelyhood of being right.



stePH

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Reply #39 on: September 23, 2010, 02:38:03 PM
I think it would be more interesting and probably more rewarding to raise your own clone than that of a parent. We may love our parents but most of us don't really know them, not on a deep level. But if you raised a clone of yourself you would know what its (meaning his or her) strengths and weaknesses are, what it would need, maybe that it would do fine in math but need encouragement for those music lessons, and would have a chance to really excel if you made sure there was tutoring in chemistry. You would know, to some extent at least, what it should avoid and what it should seek out. You would have a better chance of helping your own clone reach its full genetic potential than the clone of a parent. You would be related to the clone of a parent to exactly the same degree as you would be related to your own natural child, and we see how often that doesn't work out.

Anybody interested in this idea should read Cyteen. In addition to the main plot line of trying to replicate the original personality and ability in a clone, Justin - one of the main characters - is a clone of his father Jordan, who had his own ideas on how to duplicate a person's abilities in a clone.

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Swamp

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Reply #40 on: September 23, 2010, 02:52:05 PM
?

I guess I don't get the "no plot" complaint, it pretty clearly has a plot to me - Adrian's having to come to terms with her upbringing in order to do the right thing by her kid.

Was the story action packed, no, but it definitely had conflict and a resolution going on...

I concur

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Unblinking

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Reply #41 on: September 23, 2010, 03:26:44 PM
I think it would be more interesting and probably more rewarding to raise your own clone than that of a parent. We may love our parents but most of us don't really know them, not on a deep level. But if you raised a clone of yourself you would know what its (meaning his or her) strengths and weaknesses are, what it would need, maybe that it would do fine in math but need encouragement for those music lessons, and would have a chance to really excel if you made sure there was tutoring in chemistry. You would know, to some extent at least, what it should avoid and what it should seek out. You would have a better chance of helping your own clone reach its full genetic potential than the clone of a parent. You would be related to the clone of a parent to exactly the same degree as you would be related to your own natural child, and we see how often that doesn't work out.

Anybody interested in this idea should read Cyteen. In addition to the main plot line of trying to replicate the original personality and ability in a clone, Justin - one of the main characters - is a clone of his father Jordan, who had his own ideas on how to duplicate a person's abilities in a clone.

There was at least one subplot related to that idea in Otherland as well (and done well).



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Reply #42 on: September 23, 2010, 03:27:06 PM
When I heard  "mommies all the way back", I thought "turtles all the way down".  Anyone else?

What's that from?  I'm guessing Yertle the Turtle?



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Reply #43 on: September 23, 2010, 03:50:21 PM
I enjoyed this one. Some listeners have complained about the thin SF veneer, but the cloning worked for me, because in the end this was a story about a mother and a daughter redeeming and reconciling with each other. Sure, it could've done that without cloning, if Jenny just had a strong resemblance to her mother. But as a clone of her mother, I felt like it added something different to the story, and I enjoyed that.


Swamp

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Reply #44 on: September 23, 2010, 04:07:03 PM
When I heard  "mommies all the way back", I thought "turtles all the way down".  Anyone else?

What's that from?  I'm guessing Yertle the Turtle?

Stephen Hawking actually.  I'll admit; I had to look it up yesterday.

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Swamp

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Reply #45 on: September 23, 2010, 04:40:06 PM
By the way, I can't believe I'm the only one who's going to stick up for poor Jimmy Stewart...

I just did so here

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Unblinking

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Reply #46 on: September 23, 2010, 05:08:52 PM
When I heard  "mommies all the way back", I thought "turtles all the way down".  Anyone else?

What's that from?  I'm guessing Yertle the Turtle?

Stephen Hawking actually.  I'll admit; I had to look it up yesterday.

Didn't he write Yertle the Turtle?  ;) 




stePH

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Reply #47 on: September 23, 2010, 08:14:36 PM
Stephen Hawking actually.  I'll admit; I had to look it up yesterday.

Didn't he write Yertle the Turtle?  ;) 



Hawking, write Yertle? I thought that was Dr. Dre.

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Schreiber

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Reply #48 on: September 23, 2010, 10:42:05 PM
Stephen Hawking actually.  I'll admit; I had to look it up yesterday.

Didn't he write Yertle the Turtle?  ;) 



Hawking, write Yertle? I thought that was Dr. Dre.

No, no, he played for the 76ers in the eighties...



Schreiber

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Reply #49 on: September 23, 2010, 10:44:52 PM
By the way, I can't believe I'm the only one who's going to stick up for poor Jimmy Stewart...

I just did so here

So you did, so you did.