Geek Parenting (formally "'Corrupting' kids with sci-fi and fantasy")

[Swamp]

Since my oldest two kids re-watched all of the Star Wars movies on a recent long-drive vacation, I thought it was time to introduce all of them to the Lord of the Rings.  We have watched 1 movie a week for the last three Saturdays.  My four kids range from ages 4-10, so I was a little bit worried about them getting scared or having nightmares, but they all made it through without a problem.  If anything I was kind of dissappointed in their lack of excitement.  They liked the fighting scenes and stuff, but when I asked if they liked the movies, I was met by a kind of indifference.  I thought I had failed as a geek dad.  Maybe I should have explained things better to them as the movies went along.  Maybe I ruined them by having them watch the movie first.  Maybe I should have read the books to them.  What did I do wrong?

But since then I have felt some relief because my youngest can't stop talking about Gollum, or "the old man", as he calls him.  He wanted to know if I called my wedding ring "Precious" and why I didn't turn invisible when I put it on.  I told him that with my ring, I will turn invisible if I take it off and that I haven't taken it off since the day I was married (so start the lies).  He hasn't stopped asking me to take it off since.  It does my heart good.

[Heradel]

To be quite honest, reading the title really made me think of this, which has put to rest the question for me of if you can go wrong analyzing LoTR.

This is also the only good story Politico Click ever broke. (If this was twitter, I'd be adding #HardBeltwayTruths to the end of that).

[Swamp]

Maybe I should change the title then.  WOW.  That is a sure way of ruining a great story.  In fact I think I will change the title.

No, just trying to share my fun in introducing the next generation to things I love.

[jrderego]

Maybe I should change the title then.  WOW.  That is a sure way of ruining a great story.  In fact I think I will change the title.

No, just trying to share my fun in introducing the next generation to things I love.

The complexity of TLotR might be more than their little brains can handle. I started Ian on The Hobbit when he was 6 or so, reading it with him and having him read it aloud to me. He didn't really get the story until he reread it a year or so later. Then it clicked with him and he leapt from that to The Time Machine, all of the Percy Jackson and Harry Potter books, all of the Star Wars novels he could find, Captain's Courageous and The Jungle Book, through the Chronicles of Narnia, and back and forth through some other stuff I've recommended, Bradbury's shorts collections and some old copies of Asimov's that I had lying around. He started The Fellowship of the Ring about six months ago and it bored him, the film didn't hold his interest either which we tried to watch (he had a hard time not walking off during the battle scenes too). As for me, I made it through the first film and a half and gave up. But I'm the very rare genre guy who read them, the Silmarillion, and Tolkien's biography in college, and hates TLotR (and by extension all quest fantasy) books with white hot passion normally reserved for people who prosecute war criminals.

What did hold him though, was the Rankin/Bass "Return of the King" cartoon from the late 1970s as that takes a whole lot of the complexity of the ring stories and throws it out. I bet if you started with The Hobbit, which he wrote as a kids book, and after the book watch the animated film, you'll have them prepped up for the longer series.

Just my two cents.

[Heradel]

Yeah, it's not really a young kids book. I remember running at it around second grade after The Hobbit and giving up. I finally read it completely over a couple late nights in Middle School after a forums-based role playing game I was reading took on a heavy LoTR turn with a few players appropriating characters from the books and I wanted to read it to get the references. Which was honestly one of my main reasons for reading things when I was that age, because the internet meant that I was trying to play catch-up with a lot of adults rather than peers.

Incidentally, I'm just getting to The Time Machine now, and finding it a bit heavy-handed.

[DKT]

I don't know, Swamp. Don't be too hard on yourself. Some kids might love the books, but some kids would be bored to tears by them. (First time I tried, I was in the latter camp. Narnia on the other hand...)

Haven't really tried my kids on any of this yet. My son is too young to sit through anything, and my daughter is easily frightened and easily gets nightmares. Contemplating watching Star Wars (IV) with my daughter some time soon, but am slightly concerned about her having Darth Vader nightmares...

[Swamp]

Yeah, they like the Narnia movies and I was reading "Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe" to them last year, but somehow that dropped off.  I have started reading them "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" (to be followed by Great Glass Elevator) and they are all into that.

[DKT]

They like the Narnia movies but not the LotR movies? Interesting!

I'm kind of excited to read Narnia, Harry Potter, and Roald Dahl to my kids in the (hopefully) not too distant future...

[Swamp]

They like the Narnia movies but not the LotR movies? Interesting!

Like DeRego said, I think it is due to the level of complexity between the two.  They didn't hate LotR; they just weren't as excited as I'd hoped (except for Parker).

On similar another note, I am probably being like some parents that David Barr Kirtley ran into at a bookstore.

From that encounter, David was challenged to create a list of books for teen boys to help them want to read.  What would you add to the list?  Would it be different for teen girls?  If so, how?

[Scattercat]

My friend Dan has had great success with the Star Wars films, particularly the cartoon series one (which he says really hearkens back to the old pulp-y feel of This Week's Adventure.)  His five- and three-year-old are deeply enthused by lightsabers, and were able to jump from those to the idea of fighting hordes of orcs in LotR.

[jrderego]

They like the Narnia movies but not the LotR movies? Interesting!

Like DeRego said, I think it is due to the level of complexity between the two.  They didn't hate LotR; they just weren't as excited as I'd hoped (except for Parker).

On similar another note, I am probably being like some parents that David Barr Kirtley ran into at a bookstore.

From that encounter, David was challenged to create a list of books for teen boys to help them want to read.  What would you add to the list?  Would it be different for teen girls?  If so, how?

I'll take the challenge. However, with the caveat that you can lead a kid to a bookstore but you can't make him read unless you (i.e. the parent) are an active reader. If a kid grows up with you reading books for enjoyment they learn that books = enjoyment before they learn that Dora lives in the TV. In my experience (and I was a preschool/kindergarten teacher) is that parents are usually good readers for really little kids, but they typically aren't readers. So once the kid gets out of board books and disney stories based on the movies, they don't have a reason to keep reading. Mom and Dad don't read, they watch TV...

That said -

10 books for Boys -
The Jungle Book - Rudyard Kipling
Rumble Fish - S.E. Hinton (any S.E. Hinton is good, but Rumble Fish is my favorite of her stories)
Tunnel in the Sky - Robert Heinlein
The Illustrated Man - Ray Bradbury
The Three Musketeers or The Count of Monte Cristo - Alexandre Dumas
The War of the Worlds - H. G. Wells
Captain's Courageous - Rudyard Kipling
The Coming of Conan - Robert E. Howard (it's a collection of his original Conan shorts in publication order)
Christine - Steven King
A Clockwork Orange - Anthony Burgess

ALTERNATES FOR BOYS - Dolphin Island - Arthur C. Clarke, Jurassic Park - Michael Crichton, Call of the Wild - Jack London

10 books for girls-
Tex - S. E. Hinton
Podkayne of Mars - Robert Heinlein
A Room with a View - E. M. Forster
The Jungle Book - Rudyard Kipling
Little Women - Louisa May Alcott
I Robot - Isaac Asimov
Firestarter - Steven King
Watership Down - Richard Adams
The Three Musketeers or The Count of Monte Cristo - Alexandre Dumas
National Velvet - Enid Bagnold

I don't have any alternates for girls, as I am not a girl. I've read all of the books on both lists, and I'd stand behind all of them. I almost always put Moby Dick on any book list, and I first read it as a 6th grader (in a bowdlerized edition) and every school year after that until Senior Year in high school when I read the unabridged version. I grew up in New Bedford, home of the Pequod, but that book is harder than diamond to get into, without a good edit that streamlines the story elements and temporarily removes all of the superfluous whaling-techno-stuff, at 11 to 15 or so.

[jrderego]

My friend Dan has had great success with the Star Wars films, particularly the cartoon series one (which he says really hearkens back to the old pulp-y feel of This Week's Adventure.)  His five- and three-year-old are deeply enthused by lightsabers, and were able to jump from those to the idea of fighting hordes of orcs in LotR.

Clone Wars is, for lack of a better description, "the shit". Hands down the best adventure fantasy/science fiction on TV right now.

[stePH]

10 books for Boys -
...
[10] A Clockwork Orange - Anthony Burgess

What age level are you aiming at here, Mr. D?  I seem to remember a bit of rape and murder, and quite a bit of gratuitous violence, in that one.

(And I would definitely recommend an edition with the 21st chapter restored.)

[jrderego]

10 books for Boys -
...
[10] A Clockwork Orange - Anthony Burgess

What age level are you aiming at here, Mr. D?  I seem to remember a bit of rape and murder, and quite a bit of gratuitous violence, in that one.

(And I would definitely recommend an edition with the 21st chapter restored.)

14 or so for age, but your mileage may vary. I read it a little earlier than that and saw the film even earlier than I read it. You can't get the 20 chapter edition anymore, at least not since 1990 or so (if the copy have here is correct).

[stePH]

You can't get the 20 chapter edition [of A Clockwork Orange] anymore, at least not since 1990 or so (if the copy have here is correct).

So you're saying I'm in possession of a rare edition then? 

[jrderego]

You can't get the 20 chapter edition [of A Clockwork Orange] anymore, at least not since 1990 or so (if the copy have here is correct).

So you're saying I'm in possession of a rare edition then? 

I dunno... I first read it when it was only 20 chapters, back in 1983 or so. Then bought it more than a couple of times since 1995... I usually give it to nieces and nephews on the 13th birthday along with a copy of Pink Floyd's The Wall (CD). Since 1990 it's had the 21st chapter stitched back in at the end and that really does change the whole scope of the story.