Author Topic: PC143: Hurt Me  (Read 31244 times)

Talia

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
  • Muahahahaha
Reply #25 on: February 11, 2011, 12:01:38 PM
But everything is OK now

The story didn't suggest that to me personally, more that it was her way of announcing victory over that particular demon, or her way of saying he no longer held power over her. The story didn't say her life was going to be all sunshine and rainbows henceforth, just that, perhaps, she wouldn't be quite so burdened by the past.



danooli

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1745
    • Who Doesn't Love Stories?
Reply #26 on: February 11, 2011, 03:10:52 PM
I'm in the camp that believes murder is wrong and finds it a tad difficult to sympathize with Cory.  That is NOT to say that I discount the abuse she endured and suffered through.  Not at all.  But what she did ultimately led to many other women and girls being abused by her husband.  Granted, she had no way of knowing he would end up as a ghost...but she DID murder him instead of leaving him or having him prosecuted.  I wonder if she can call an exorcist?

That said, I did enjoy the story.  To me, the pace was just right and the tense tone of it worked to keep me interested enough to care about Cory and David, even if I couldn't sympathize with her at the end after the reveal.  (Mom was a bitch though.)  The reading, in my opinion, was perfect.



Rain

  • Matross
  • ****
  • Posts: 178
Reply #27 on: February 11, 2011, 06:57:34 PM
Up untill the end i thought it was going to be about BDSM aswell, i still wouldnt have liked the story but atleast it would have been interesting.

I felt that the ending took away any kind of horror elements, and we were left with a rather tame story that wasnt scary at all, and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?




Scattercat

  • Caution:
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4904
  • Amateur wordsmith
    • Mirrorshards
Reply #28 on: February 11, 2011, 07:54:43 PM
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?

The ghost can't hurt her.  She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge.  So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.



Unblinking

  • Sir Postsalot
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 8729
    • Diabolical Plots
Reply #29 on: February 11, 2011, 08:37:08 PM
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?

The ghost can't hurt her.  She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge.  So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.

I think that's what the author intended but I wasn't particularly convinced of that. 


I felt that the hide/reveal was pretty fair, in the sense of a good murder mystery, in which the author gives you just enough clues - but only just enough and no more - for you to figure out whodunnit.

I wouldn't say this sort of misdirection is akin to a murder mystery.  Unless it was a murder mystery in which the narrator turns out to have been the killer all along.  Which would really annoy me.  I haven't read any Sherlock Holmes stories, but I believe they're told from the POV of Watson.  This allows Holmes to keep secrets from the reader without violating the established POV, so that the reader can follow the facts and try to reach the conclusions themselves.





Unblinking

  • Sir Postsalot
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 8729
    • Diabolical Plots
Reply #30 on: February 11, 2011, 08:44:15 PM
Ah. See, I'd argue that because we know the water tastes dirty or because we see her react to something as if she'd been aroused, we're not really in her head. I meant deeper into her psyche/thought patterns, so apologies if I wasn't clear.

No need to apologize; I thought your meaning was clear enough.  I think where we differ is my opinion that having a narrator who lies to the reader directly or through omission makes for a bad POV.  "Bad" in this case meaning that it disconnects me from the character rather than connecting me.

Also, IMO a narrator who tells me her internal reactions is implicitly allowing me "in her head", and if she is able to conceal important details from me the POV is, at best, inconsistent.



stePH

  • Actually has enough cowbell.
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 3906
  • Cool story, bro!
    • Thetatr0n on SoundCloud
Reply #31 on: February 11, 2011, 08:51:18 PM
I'm in the camp that believes murder is wrong and finds it a tad difficult to sympathize with Cory.  That is NOT to say that I discount the abuse she endured and suffered through. 

I don't condone murder either, but men like whatshisname make me sympathetic to the "he needed killing" defense.

"Nerdcore is like playing Halo while getting a blow-job from Hello Kitty."
-- some guy interviewed in Nerdcore Rising


ElectricPaladin

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1005
  • Holy Robot
    • Burning Zeppelin Experience
Reply #32 on: February 11, 2011, 09:01:34 PM
I'm in the camp that believes murder is wrong and finds it a tad difficult to sympathize with Cory.  That is NOT to say that I discount the abuse she endured and suffered through. 

I don't condone murder either, but men like whatshisname make me sympathetic to the "he needed killing" defense.

I dunno. I could totally see writing an interesting story from the ghost's point of view: "sure, I was a violent jerk in life, but she could have just left me. She didn't need to blow me apart with a shotgun. And since then, I've been happy to just try to keep my house empty so I can brood in peace, but here she comes, moving in, defying me, and getting set to torment me forever. Don't I ever get to rest?"

Captain of the Burning Zeppelin Experience.

Help my kids get the educational supplies they need at my Donor's Choose page.


Wilson Fowlie

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1475
    • The Maple Leaf Singers
Reply #33 on: February 11, 2011, 09:33:05 PM
... what she did ultimately led to many other women and girls being abused by her husband.  Granted, she had no way of knowing he would end up as a ghost...but she DID murder him instead of leaving him or having him prosecuted.

Sadly, having him prosecuted is as (or more?) likely to lead to him being free to abuse other women.  At least in this case, it was restricted to the (few) women who entered this particular house.  A wrongfully freed abuser has the whole population of women and girls to choose from.

Also, by coming back and taking over the house, Cory is keeping him from being able to abuse anyone further, at least until she dies.  Hopefully she'll arrange in her will for the house to be demolished, or an exorcism to be performed*, or something.  Or, perhaps, before she gives birth to a daughter.

(Note that I'm not condoning the murder, just saying that this isn't necessarily a reason to judge against it.)



*Since ghosts exist in this story, presumably exorcisms have an effect, unlike in real life.



"People commonly use the word 'procrastination' to describe what they do on the Internet. It seems to me too mild to describe what's happening as merely not-doing-work. We don't call it procrastination when someone gets drunk instead of working." - Paul Graham


tinygaia

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 81
Reply #34 on: February 11, 2011, 09:50:17 PM
Didn't see the end coming. I had to listen to it again for the full effect. After the elderly neighbors said that men never see the ghost, I was really thinking she was going to take a ghostly abusive lover on the side and her nice not-kinky boyfriend would never be the wiser. I'm glad that wasn't how it went, because I don't hold with cheating, even ghostly cheating. Anyway, on second listen, I notice that the neighbors never specify that the ghost was actually doing physical damage to the women, just scaring them senseless with his powerful hate. After the conversation with the neighbors, when she confronts the ghost, it doesn't actually inflict any pain - it tries to, but nothing happens.

This is going to sound odd, but what bugs me about the ending is that she murdered him in secret and hid the body in the house. Someone earlier referred to it as "revenge porn" - If she had truly killed him in self defense, had confessed to the crime, and served a sentence for it, I'd be all for "I'm going back to that house to torment the ghost now." That would be revenge. But going back to the house after getting away with murder was what crossed the line into "revenge porn."

Also, I know I read too many ghost stories because it crossed my mind that the ghost wouldn't be there if she hadn't hid the body in the basement. Hiding bodies is one of the things that causes ghosts! And if she ever gets tired of the ghost, all she has to do is dig up the body. Does anyone else think like this?



Wilson Fowlie

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1475
    • The Maple Leaf Singers
Reply #35 on: February 11, 2011, 09:54:02 PM
I dunno. I could totally see writing an interesting story from the ghost's point of view: "sure, I was a violent jerk in life, but she could have just left me. She didn't need to blow me apart with a shotgun. And since then, I've been happy to just try to keep my house empty so I can brood in peace, but here she comes, moving in, defying me, and getting set to torment me forever. Don't I ever get to rest?"

Wow, really?  I can't imagine any story that would make me sympathize with this guy.  Even as a ghost with blood pouring from his chest, he's fixated on hating and hurting women.

And abusive men generally do not take well to being left by their victims. They want to be the ones in power and allowing her to decide when to leave gives her too much power. She almost certainly could not have left him, at least not easily.

"People commonly use the word 'procrastination' to describe what they do on the Internet. It seems to me too mild to describe what's happening as merely not-doing-work. We don't call it procrastination when someone gets drunk instead of working." - Paul Graham


ElectricPaladin

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1005
  • Holy Robot
    • Burning Zeppelin Experience
Reply #36 on: February 11, 2011, 10:24:39 PM
I dunno. I could totally see writing an interesting story from the ghost's point of view: "sure, I was a violent jerk in life, but she could have just left me. She didn't need to blow me apart with a shotgun. And since then, I've been happy to just try to keep my house empty so I can brood in peace, but here she comes, moving in, defying me, and getting set to torment me forever. Don't I ever get to rest?"

Wow, really?  I can't imagine any story that would make me sympathize with this guy.  Even as a ghost with blood pouring from his chest, he's fixated on hating and hurting women.

And abusive men generally do not take well to being left by their victims. They want to be the ones in power and allowing her to decide when to leave gives her too much power. She almost certainly could not have left him, at least not easily.

A lot of people forget that abusive partners are humans, too. No one is born bad. Things - usually really bad things - have happened to these people that lead them to become who they are. I don't take away an abuser's responsibility for his own actions - he's still a jerk, he's still culpable for his actions - but they're just people. They're human, too. I don't have a lot of sympathy for them being found out and humiliated, losing friends and lovers, and generally living lonely and pitiful lives. I mean, that's what you get when you treat people badly. But death - and the way it blots out all possibility of redemption - is something I can feel sorry about.

Captain of the Burning Zeppelin Experience.

Help my kids get the educational supplies they need at my Donor's Choose page.


eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6109
Reply #37 on: February 11, 2011, 10:34:00 PM
That said, the ghost in this story very clearly isn't trying to keep his house empty, but rather, as the story points out at several times, hates women and wishes to terrify them (or worse, but it seems like it has no ability to physically harm anyone). Remember, his hate is strong enough that it projects to the neighbour's house on occasions.




Rain

  • Matross
  • ****
  • Posts: 178
Reply #38 on: February 12, 2011, 02:21:46 PM
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?

The ghost can't hurt her.  She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge.  So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.

Her assumption is that the ghost will leave them alone, if she shows it that she doesnt care what it does to her, nothing in the story actually confirms that, for all we know the ghost could call her bluff and continue.



Loz

  • Lochage
  • *****
  • Posts: 370
    • Blah Flowers
Reply #39 on: February 12, 2011, 06:35:01 PM
I loved it. It took the metaphorical ghosts that haunt us and make them, or one of them, real and shows us how to overcome them. I did feel queasy as the story developed, too many stories in all media seem to think that all you need to do to have a horror story is woman + torture, but this story really wrongfooted me in a way I ultimately enjoyed. This guy seemed like such a creep that even death doesn't stop him trying to abuse women, and doing it when men weren't around too. The worst kind of coward and bully.



eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6109
Reply #40 on: February 12, 2011, 06:47:33 PM
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?

The ghost can't hurt her.  She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge.  So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.

Her assumption is that the ghost will leave them alone, if she shows it that she doesnt care what it does to her, nothing in the story actually confirms that, for all we know the ghost could call her bluff and continue.

The story established two things:

1 - Men were never able to percieve the ghost. This could, of course, have been the ghost's decision, but in the past it has only manifested to women.

2 - The ghost was not capable of having any physical effect on its environment, not even when Cory provoked it as much as she could. It was not capable of moving objects, or hurting her, or even touching her.

Now, it's true that nothing in the story states explicitly that the ghost can't change the rules tomorrow. But I don't think she expects the ghost to just sulk and not interfere. I think she expects it to manifest around her all the time, but her boyfriend won't know, and she will not care. I think the story itself implies she is right.



asgardian

  • Extern
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Reply #41 on: February 13, 2011, 09:28:32 AM
I liked this one, and had no POV issues when listening.  I was surprised by the end, but like most others, felt it left far to many open questions.  No, I don't think every little thing needs to be tied up in a story, but I think the 'surprise ending' created more issues then it solved, and not necessarily for the better.

Not much else to say that has not already been said....

“I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.” - Tolkin


tbucks

  • Extern
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Reply #42 on: February 14, 2011, 01:26:38 AM
Moving.  The closing comments touched me.  Beautiful.  Deep thanks for sharing this story. 



Rain

  • Matross
  • ****
  • Posts: 178
Reply #43 on: February 14, 2011, 05:32:31 PM
and really, is her boyfriend going to move in and not notice that a ghost is violating her every night?

The ghost can't hurt her.  She confronted it and taunted it with that knowledge.  So yes, her boyfriend is going to move in and likely not notice anything.

Her assumption is that the ghost will leave them alone, if she shows it that she doesnt care what it does to her, nothing in the story actually confirms that, for all we know the ghost could call her bluff and continue.

The story established two things:

1 - Men were never able to percieve the ghost. This could, of course, have been the ghost's decision, but in the past it has only manifested to women.

2 - The ghost was not capable of having any physical effect on its environment, not even when Cory provoked it as much as she could. It was not capable of moving objects, or hurting her, or even touching her.

I could be completely wrong but

1. I thought that it just didnt care about men, not that they couldnt see it.

2. I  had the distinct impression that the ghost actually tried to rape the women, and that it had no problem doing physical things to them and that it simply wanted to scare Cory first.



eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6109
Reply #44 on: February 14, 2011, 08:42:47 PM
I could be completely wrong but

1. I thought that it just didnt care about men, not that they couldnt see it.

The neighbour said that the male occupants of the house never saw anything but that their girlfriends refused to stay there. It could be that the ghost just avoided appearing in front of the men and only appeared when the women were alone, though, so you could well be right about this.

Quote
2. I  had the distinct impression that the ghost actually tried to rape the women, and that it had no problem doing physical things to them and that it simply wanted to scare Cory first.

The neighbour never mentioned any physical contact, just that the ghost would appear and threaten the women. The confrontation in the kitchen with Cory was her trying to goad it into doing something to her other than just appear, and the ghost didn't - given what we know of its behavior, I think it's very unlikely that it was being subtle or tricky. The whole point of her asking him "hurt me" was not that she was hoping he would, but that she was trying to challenge him in order to prove that he was impotent. And the fact that the story made it very clear that she *was* very much afraid at that point was meant to show, I think, that it wasn't her lack of fear that protected her, but rather that she was safe all along.

I'm not saying that it's impossible that the ghost could have some way of harming Cory and/or Danny, but I think the story gave Cory very good reasons to believe otherwise.



Scattercat

  • Caution:
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4904
  • Amateur wordsmith
    • Mirrorshards
Reply #45 on: February 14, 2011, 10:49:40 PM
The neighbor explicitly stated that the thing in the house "wanted" the women and chased after them, but that it never successfully caught one.  The neighbor attributed this to the idea that the women fled the house before they succumbed, but the ending suggests that this was not necessarily the case.



kibitzer

  • Purveyor of Unsolicited Opinions
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 2228
  • Kibitzer: A meddler who offers unwanted advice
Reply #46 on: February 15, 2011, 02:06:05 AM
Wow.

Like everyone else the story didn't go where I thought it was going, but where it did go was moving and affecting.

Wow.

I seriously considered giving this one a miss. I couldn't make it all the way through Flat Diane over on EP -- about halfway through I switched it off. So I thought this might be another "too dark for my sensibilities" story. Maybe I should go back and finish Flat Diane?

I acknowledge the concerns about condoning murder but that honestly didn't occur to me while I was listening. I was too taken in with the story.


yicheng

  • Matross
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Reply #47 on: February 16, 2011, 11:49:07 PM
Great story!  The surprise twist at the end had me gasping and screaming "Whoa!!".  Luckily I was driving alone in my car at the time.






Reginod

  • Extern
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Reply #48 on: February 17, 2011, 01:33:26 PM
Before I jump into the conversation I have to say that I loved this as a story.  It seemed to reverse, in interesting ways, a number of horror story tropes (the poor single woman who buys the haunted house—not tricked into it at all, the kindly neighbors a little too interested in the haunted house—actually kind neighbors, etc.).  This was a great listen for me.
I also have to say that I’ve worked with the victims of domestic violence (mostly helping them obtain restraining orders) and this ghost reminds me of far too many of the men I’ve met in court.  So this story hit a little close to home, but, for me, it had a much happier ending than too many of these situations do in real life.  It may make me a bad person, but I was cheering Cory on at the end and I think I’ll keep this on my iPod for the drive home after particularly frustrating days in court.

That being said, to ElectricPaladin’s point about a story from the ghost’s point of view, I didn’t read (hear) this as a horror story for Cory I read this as a horror story for the ghost.  (Obviously not from his POV).  When the story ended I had a good feel for who and what the ghost was – I had a sense of his rage and hate and misogyny, his sense of owning Cory, and I could imagine what it would feel like for him to impotently watch as she lived her life with another man on the ghost’s grave.  For that ghost I can’t imagine a more horrific fate.  To me, it seemed like the twist at the end wasn’t that the ghost was the monster, but that it, in a twisted way, had become the victim.  And I think that’s what really did it for me, the story had me empathizing with the abuser and what he was suffering (or would suffer) while I had been, and in many ways still was, cheering Cory on.   



Listener

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • I place things in locations which later elude me.
    • Various and Sundry Items of Interest
Reply #49 on: February 17, 2011, 07:06:17 PM
To me the best parts of the story were the setting -- the house, the attention to detail -- and the way the final scene's setting was written. Not necessarily the conversation, but the blood, Cory still drinking her tea, etc.

After the elderly neighbors said that men never see the ghost, I was really thinking she was going to take a ghostly abusive lover on the side and her nice not-kinky boyfriend would never be the wiser.

I like that interpretation better, myself. It's kind of the direction I thought the story would go. Either that or more overt BDSM between Cory and the ghost.

I wonder if part of the reason so many abused characters kill their abusers in fiction is because, in real life, killing one's abuser is at best justifiable homicide and at worst murder in the first degree, which puts the abused person in prison.

"Farts are a hug you can smell." -Wil Wheaton

Blog || Quote Blog ||  Written and Audio Work || Twitter: @listener42