Author Topic: PC163: The Landholders No Longer Carry Swords  (Read 27571 times)

soapturtle

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Reply #25 on: July 07, 2011, 06:56:35 PM
The comments on this story have far surpassed this story in and of itself for me.

My thoughts on the story itself are as follows:  "Meh....."

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stePH

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Reply #26 on: July 07, 2011, 07:14:49 PM
Well, there's a difference between being a head of state and being your government's representative in the Republic Senate. That's how Padme got to be first one and then the other. I'm not sure what the whole "electing" queens was about, though. Or why they choose teenage girls for the position. But hey, that's politics in another Galaxy for you.

No, that's just what I like to call, George Lucas' "POA" style of world-building.

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Wilson Fowlie

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Reply #27 on: July 07, 2011, 07:58:12 PM
But hey, that's politics in another Galaxy for you.

No, that's just what I like to call George Lucas' "POA" style of world-building.

Position of attention?
Public Order Act?
Puppeteers of America?
Power of attorney?
Pakistan Olympic Association?
Prison Officers' Association?
Purchase Order Acknowledgement?
Prisoner of Azkaban?

(Thanks, Wikipedia!)

"People commonly use the word 'procrastination' to describe what they do on the Internet. It seems to me too mild to describe what's happening as merely not-doing-work. We don't call it procrastination when someone gets drunk instead of working." - Paul Graham


ElectricPaladin

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Reply #28 on: July 07, 2011, 08:18:08 PM
But hey, that's politics in another Galaxy for you.

No, that's just what I like to call George Lucas' "POA" style of world-building.

Position of attention?
Public Order Act?
Puppeteers of America?
Power of attorney?
Pakistan Olympic Association?
Prison Officers' Association?
Purchase Order Acknowledgement?
Prisoner of Azkaban?

(Thanks, Wikipedia!)

Piece of Ass?
Peace of Ass?
Perhaps it's a typo of POS?

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InfiniteMonkey

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Reply #29 on: July 07, 2011, 08:18:55 PM
But hey, that's politics in another Galaxy for you.

No, that's just what I like to call George Lucas' "POA" style of world-building.

Position of attention?
Public Order Act?
Puppeteers of America?
Power of attorney?
Pakistan Olympic Association?
Prison Officers' Association?
Purchase Order Acknowledgement?
Prisoner of Azkaban?

(Thanks, Wikipedia!)


My guess was "Pulled Out of your Ass"....



stePH

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Reply #30 on: July 07, 2011, 08:38:04 PM
My guess was "Pulled Out of your Ass"....


...and InfiniteMonkey wins the cigar!

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Talia

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Reply #31 on: July 07, 2011, 11:29:59 PM
Hi guys, I have moved the political discussion here. Thanks!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 02:13:09 PM by Talia »



Scattercat

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Reply #32 on: July 08, 2011, 04:50:05 AM
Quote from: Scattercat
The idea that a Good King can solve all the problems is very, very tempting to the monkey and the lizard that live in your head, underneath that thin layer of human.

Monkey AND Lizard? Where's the Lizard from?

We were lizards and amphibians before we were mammals.  That little bit right above the spinal column?  They call that the lizard brain.  That's the part we have in common with scaly things and wriggling things that live in the mud. 



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Reply #33 on: July 08, 2011, 05:29:32 AM
Quote from: Scattercat
The idea that a Good King can solve all the problems is very, very tempting to the monkey and the lizard that live in your head, underneath that thin layer of human.

Monkey AND Lizard? Where's the Lizard from?

We were lizards and amphibians before we were mammals.  That little bit right above the spinal column?  They call that the lizard brain.  That's the part we have in common with scaly things and wriggling things that live in the mud. 
Ahh... very cool. I've never heard of that before, thank you. :)


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iamafish

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Reply #34 on: July 10, 2011, 10:18:32 AM
you've never heard of evolution? ok, you have some catching up to do.

I enjoyed this story, but not as much as i would like to. I like my revolutions to be in the spirit of liberalism, like the French or the American, not in the spirit of socialism, like the Russian or political rumblings of the British lower classes from the late 18th century pretty well to the present day. Probably because I'm a liberal, not a socialist

for the record I also took this as an analogy for the British political unrest around the time of the agricultural revolution.


olivaw

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Reply #35 on: July 10, 2011, 10:55:45 AM
When it comes to analogies in fantasy, I agree with Lewis and Tolkien.
'X is an analogy for Y' is a less useful statement than 'X is Y if Y had happened in Z'.



Wilson Fowlie

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Reply #36 on: July 10, 2011, 04:19:38 PM
you've never heard of evolution? ok, you have some catching up to do.

That seems a bit harsh. It's perfectly possible to have heard of evolution without knowing some of the specific conclusions that it leads to.

"People commonly use the word 'procrastination' to describe what they do on the Internet. It seems to me too mild to describe what's happening as merely not-doing-work. We don't call it procrastination when someone gets drunk instead of working." - Paul Graham


Scattercat

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Reply #37 on: July 11, 2011, 12:09:17 AM
you've never heard of evolution? ok, you have some catching up to do.

That seems a bit harsh. It's perfectly possible to have heard of evolution without knowing some of the specific conclusions that it leads to.


In this case, it's just neurology - the brain structures are the same, which is why we can study our brains by dissecting flatworms and snails - and evolution provides the explanation as to how and why.  :-)



Spindaddy

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Reply #38 on: July 11, 2011, 01:49:02 AM
you've never heard of evolution? ok, you have some catching up to do.

That seems a bit harsh. It's perfectly possible to have heard of evolution without knowing some of the specific conclusions that it leads to.


In this case, it's just neurology - the brain structures are the same, which is why we can study our brains by dissecting flatworms and snails - and evolution provides the explanation as to how and why.  :-)

It's ok Wilson, I thought it was more tongue-in-cheek than anything. I was gonna throw down with some silly Adam and Eve stuff to start a huge tangent thread, but I'm too tired too atm. :)

What I meant by "I've never heard of that before" was that I've specifically never heard of the "lizard brain" in reference to human brain structures. It seemed like a strange reference so I asked. I don't mind admitting ignorance now and again. Of course I know about evolution, the basic principles blah blah blah, but honestly, it's nothing I spent a boatload of time studying and its been a long long time since I've sat in a classroom with some ivory tower dweller. Oddly enough, I was listening to George Carlin and he was doing a joke on the reptilian part of the brain and it made me laugh harder.

As far as dissecting random invertebrates.... it's been awhile since I've pulled apart something that's been sitting in formaldehyde. The only thing I've been cutting into lately has been some killer barbeque.

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iamafish

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Reply #39 on: July 11, 2011, 10:58:40 AM
purely tongue in cheek, maybe a little more cutting that intended.


Rough Week

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Reply #40 on: July 12, 2011, 02:46:33 PM
In the end this story was a decent listen, but for me, it was hard to get into for a few reasons.

First, the build-up part of the story came off as "Transcription of Arguments Between Mother-in-law and Son-in-law, Volume XIV." I can see how this device was used to tell the narrative, but the back-and-forth arguing got to be a bit much for me.

Second, the use of names like "younger son-in-law" was disorienting. It made it hard to identify with the characters. Maybe the goal was to emphasize family ties or the familial dynamic, but using titles (which all sound similar) for a dozen related characters made it hard for me to track who was who.

Finally, I was not a big fan of the low fantasy content. The landowners *might* be slightly supernatural, they *might* do unspeakable things in an ambiguous way, or they might just be trying to buy land. Other than that we have a preindustrial society in which electricity was just invented. I can see how it fits in the genre but nothing "fantastic" jumped out at me.

On the plus side, though, the written portrayal of the protagonist was very compelling, as was the reading/narration. Good writing and good voice for the character. I could feel heart-felt emotion being infused into her account of events. A little bit of mother-in-law-ish annoyance, a big streak of concern for her family, and a healthy dose of pragmatism. I liked the character, I just didn't care for the storytelling method or turns of events.



iamafish

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Reply #41 on: July 12, 2011, 03:01:58 PM
Finally, I was not a big fan of the low fantasy content. The landowners *might* be slightly supernatural, they *might* do unspeakable things in an ambiguous way, or they might just be trying to buy land. Other than that we have a preindustrial society in which electricity was just invented. I can see how it fits in the genre but nothing "fantastic" jumped out at me.

I'd question this comment (I agree wholehearted with everything else you said). I'd question how, exactly, you would define 'fantasy'. From your post i'm implying that there needs to be something magical or out-of-the-ordinary. While I would say that these things most certainly are fantasy, I'd disagree that fantasy must have something in some way magical. This story takes place in a world which is not our own. It is a pseudo-historical setting that has similarities between at least three different cultures as already identified in this thread, but is not set in a definable historical setting. The world is invented, it is a fantasy. Sure it's a less elaborate, less different fantasy than we are used to, but it is still a world which is identifiably not our own. To me that is purely and simply fantasy.

To say this has a low fantasy content seem, to me, to miss the point of the genre. I'd argue that urban fantasies, or historical fantasies, which portray a world very much like our own, but with magical elements woven in, have a far lower fantasy content that a story set entirely in a fantasy world, but a world in which there is no or very little magic. The fantasy may play less of an important role in the story, but it's still there in a fairly high concentration.


Lionman

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Reply #42 on: July 12, 2011, 03:59:32 PM
While I listened to this, my brain was rushing around, trying to put all the pieces together, sort it out and so forth.  Then we came to the end and suddenly my brain went 'DING!' and jumped the possibilities out further.  This story could have been set as a medieval sort of setting, but could it have been as easily been one set in a world where the Landholders weren't the same species.  They could have been an 'enlightened' race who simply came to 'help' the indigenous race.

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olivaw

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Reply #43 on: July 12, 2011, 05:32:36 PM
I was half-expecting the landholders to be humans, and the peasants to be weird alien things.

But that's a hoary old cliche so I'm kind of glad they didn't.



Dave

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Reply #44 on: July 12, 2011, 10:55:06 PM
So, you know how I always complain about stories not having endings? This one doesn't even have a MIDDLE. This isn't even a story, it's the first chapter of a story. Half an hour or whatever of set up with ZERO payoff.

It's a good thing I listened to the unicorn story right afterward or I'd have been irritable all day. That story has a beginning that's intriguing, builds on itself, and builds, and builds, and then rewards the listener with a predictable but still satisfying payoff.

Also the characters had names.

I have piles of notes all over the place with half-finished outlines for stories, and that's what this felt like to me. A rough sketch with some interesting ideas, but none of the important details filled out, and no idea where it's going.

*edited to remove me being crankier than was necessary. Sorry, it was a long day at work*
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 11:04:51 PM by Dave »

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Talia

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Reply #45 on: July 12, 2011, 11:08:39 PM
Hah, never mind. I removed my post too (for those who got a notification). All good now. And thanks Dave. :)



Rough Week

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Reply #46 on: July 13, 2011, 10:19:15 PM
I'd question how, exactly, you would define 'fantasy'.
...
To say this has a low fantasy content seem, to me, to miss the point of the genre.

Thanks for your response. I completely understand your point, and I agree that it's not very fair or useful to define "fantasy" particularly narrowly. We shouldn't think that only stories with wizards and dragons in them are fantasy.

After thinking about it, maybe this story is "political fantasy." Not fantasy like "what if there was magic?" or "what if the Egyptians invented clockwork golems?" but more a fantasy of what might happen in a fantastical culture with a fantastical government, and what might happen given a few turns of events.

I'm just a traditionalist in some ways, and I like my fantasy to have a little magic, my scifi to have some spaceships, and my horror to stay on podcasts I don't listen to, except I guess it can visit at Halloween.



Max e^{i pi}

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Reply #47 on: July 14, 2011, 03:16:49 PM
I haven't read this whole long thread yet, so if I repeat something already said, please forgive me.

There were two things about this story that annoyed me:
1. The lack of character names. What kind of person refers to her family (her family!!) as numbers? I can understand trying to distance oneself from sons/daughters-in-law that way, but from her own children and grandchildren? No, I'm sorry. That doesn't work and it prevented me from identifying with the protag.

<EDIT>
Once I got over the rather annoying way that no one had a name (though it was explained later in the story)...
When did that happen? Did I miss it?
</EDIT>

2. I need to re-listen to parts of the story to make sure, but I'm almost positive that there was a tense switch in the middle of the story. Most of the story was being told in the present-tense, and then suddenly it switched to past tense. That is an amateur mistake that should have ben drilled out of us in middle school. Aside from that, it made me question everything that had happened until now in the story and try to reconcile it. Flashbacks? Is this part a flashback? Again, I need to re-listen to make sure, but at the time this stuck in my mind and bothered me.

Most of the above can be made up for with the ending (also, that got drawn out for too long). I particularly hate it when people revolt, have a single successful battle against overwhelming odds (whether militaristic or in their minds) and then think it's smooth sailing from then on. I am very glad that the heroes of this story knew that the real battle was still ahead of them, and that even if they won this one, the worst is still to come.

While I'm in a complaining mood....
There is a lot of dead space at the end of Podcastle episodes. Never less than 30 seconds, and often closer to a minute. While I appreciate that some padding is necessary, usually 2-5 seconds is enough. This vast desert of silence often leaves me wondering if my battery had died or if I had run into the end of my playlist. And not to mention the annoyance this can be. Posit: I'm jogging, happily listening to my favorite podcasts, and then it gets real silent. I don't want to hear the noises of the street/gym, but fiddling with little buttons on my device while jogging and trying to watch where I"m going can be tough. What do I do?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 03:25:18 PM by Max e^{i pi} »

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Reply #48 on: July 14, 2011, 04:18:54 PM
While I'm in a complaining mood....
There is a lot of dead space at the end of Podcastle episodes. Never less than 30 seconds, and often closer to a minute. While I appreciate that some padding is necessary, usually 2-5 seconds is enough. This vast desert of silence often leaves me wondering if my battery had died or if I had run into the end of my playlist. And not to mention the annoyance this can be. Posit: I'm jogging, happily listening to my favorite podcasts, and then it gets real silent. I don't want to hear the noises of the street/gym, but fiddling with little buttons on my device while jogging and trying to watch where I"m going can be tough. What do I do?

Pop quiz, hotshot. You're at the gym lifting weights and/or running when the latest PodCastle episode runs out, and there's thirty seconds of dead silence. It's deafening, it's knocking you off your routine, it might even make you fall over, but you can't fiddle with the buttons.

What do you do, hotshot? What do you do?

(I think Depeche Mode wrote a song about this? And it didn't have anything to do with shooting the hostage.)

Actually, I mention it to our sound producer. I don't think that's happened to the latest episode...but then again, I hadn't noticed it before, either.



Wilson Fowlie

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Reply #49 on: July 14, 2011, 07:54:51 PM
While I'm in a complaining mood....
There is a lot of dead space at the end of Podcastle episodes. Never less than 30 seconds, and often closer to a minute. While I appreciate that some padding is necessary, usually 2-5 seconds is enough.

Max, did you start listening to Podcastle at episode 162?  Otherwise, I wonder if there might be a problem with your device.  I just listened to the ends of the last 20 or so casts in Windows Media Player (so I can skip directly to the end), and this is what I heard:

    RegularFlash
      #    Silence1          #                    Silence1
    1512612
    1520623
    1530634
    154 3 - 8 2641
    1553
    156 5 - 10 2Other
    157 8 3Spotlight #10
    1582Promo48 3
    159 5 - 10 2
    160 3 - 10 2
    1610
    16225 (!)
    16336 (!)
    1641
    1652

These numbers match my own experience when I originally listened to these (except for the two really long ones, 162 and 163, where I honestly didn't notice the long silence).

Anyway, be assured that all (two) of the episodes after this one have a shorter trailing silence.  I can't speak for the episodes before 151 because I haven't specifically checked them, but I have never noticed this issue before. (That may not be saying much, though, because I didn't notice it at the time with 162 & 163.)

That said, there is often quite a lot of the music 'bed' at the end of an episode, so if your player isn't very loud, you might not be able to hear that over the noise at your gym. My player has that problem and I had to get a pair of noise-reducing earbuds to be able to hear softer tracks over just the traffic noises when I'm walking around outside near where I work.



1 All measurements in seconds, and approximate.

2 A time range indicates a fadeout; the perceived amount of silence depends on the level of ambient noise in your gym/car/keep/magical treehouse.

3 Not actual silence; cricket sound effect at the end of the music track.

4 Promotion for the Alphabet Quartet

"People commonly use the word 'procrastination' to describe what they do on the Internet. It seems to me too mild to describe what's happening as merely not-doing-work. We don't call it procrastination when someone gets drunk instead of working." - Paul Graham