EP300: We go back

[deflective]

to be fair, the smart boy rarely fairs better. (hey Piggy Piggy Piggy)

[Wilson Fowlie]

While I did enjoy this story, I confess I groaned when Jenny reveals that she's gay. I don't have a problem with Jenny being gay, I have a problem with "the smart girl" being gay. Why is it that our society has such a problem with smart girls? It's as if a smart girl is so unattractive to men that we must make her ugly, or shy, or gay. I was rather disappointed to see this kind of thinking pop up here.

Maybe it's not that the smart girls are gay, but that the gay girls are smart.   (But we - and even they- don't find out in that order, of course.)

[InfiniteMonkey]

The FBI has her fingerprints via an adoption. Maybe hmmmm

All of it together is a bit too much to swallow.

I think it's reasonable that her fingerprints would be on file for child safety reasons. I'm not sure that it's reasonable that that Feds would bother looking in that database.

[Wilson Fowlie]

The FBI has her fingerprints via an adoption. Maybe hmmmm

I think it's reasonable that her fingerprints would be on file for child safety reasons. I'm not sure that it's reasonable that that Feds would bother looking in that database.

Depends on how rich the guy she took the files from is.

[Scatcatpdx]

@Andy C
I can see where you coming from I am a Christian but I did not think much of it and did not bring the issue up  because I have seen churches and Christians acting like that (why I left evangelicalism and became Reformed and Anglican), and being Reformed and respect to total depravity I not surprised  of Tim Pratt's portrayal of Christianity.

Still I am sad some authors paint Christians with a broad stereotype as villains as well as taking a swipe on ministries to gays(I have personal experiences similar counseling).

[matweller]

The FBI has her fingerprints via an adoption. Maybe hmmmm

I think it's reasonable that her fingerprints would be on file for child safety reasons. I'm not sure that it's reasonable that that Feds would bother looking in that database.

Depends on how rich the guy she took the files from is.

The police have fingerprinted almost every child as part of school enrollment since about 1980.

[ElectricPaladin]

This story amused the hell out of me - so much so that I'm buying The Nex and reading it, well, next. I loved the friendship the characters shared and this particular take on the consequences of the weird fantasy stuff that happens in stories. All hail Tim Pratt!

[Unblinking]

I think it's reasonable that her fingerprints would be on file for child safety reasons. I'm not sure that it's reasonable that that Feds would bother looking in that database.

To me it wasn't so much a surprise that they would bother, but that they were allowed to use the adoption database in that way.  If that database was set up supposedly as a way to protect the child, then it seems a major violation to use that for criminal tracking, when she has no criminal record to justify it.  Especially since she is still a minor.

Edit: Found it! The technical term for that is antanaclasis. Wikipedia calls it a kind of pun, but I don't think it a) always necessarily is nor b) is used that way here.

Ah!  Thank you for correcting me.  You are right, the ending light was not a terrible pun.  It was a terrible antanaclasis.  It still felt like a really bad punchline to a really long joke that didn't appear to be a joke until that punchline arose.  As an ending line, it gave the impression that everything before it was put in place just for this really bad joke, which thinking back on the story makes the whole thing seem weaker.

[Unblinking]

Andy, think I'm with you on the hackneyed "religious = evil" thing. There are of course times where that's true, but most families I know deal with it lovingly and in a way that does not alienate their children. I think this is the exception rather than the rule (I have no stats to back this up, just anecdote, so take it for what you will).

I acutally enjoyed the recent Hugo nominee that I think was over on StarShipSofa recently - about the Mormon missionary to an alien species. I'm not Mormon, but it was nice to see someone religious be the hero rather than the antagonist.

Yes!  That was an awesome story, well deserving of the nom, IMO.  "That Leviathan, Whom Thou Hast Made" by Eric James Stone:
http://www.starshipsofa.com/blog/2011/06/21/starshipsofa-no-194-eric-james-stone/

[HoopyFreud]

No. No. A hundred thousand times no.
Mur, sorry to say, I think you screwed up.
First, let me say that I've been looking forward to EP 300 since May. I figured that Steve's Grandmaster tradition would continue, so I was incredibly excited. When I heard Mur say that this would be a modern story, instead of an old one, I was a little disappointed. I had been hoping for Herbert or Clark or Silverberg. But when Mur said it would be a Tim Pratt story, I was still pretty pumped - Tim is a great and well-known author. Then I realized it was a YA story, and my spirits sank even further. There are a few really good YA stories, so I hadn't lost all hope yet. Now let me list the ways in which the story itself disappointed me.
1 - I hated the main character. Given a device which allows literally infinite opportunities for exploration, she is inert. The excuses she gives - no money, age, sentiment - are easily circumvented. She appears to have no desire to escape her life, which she hates. I had nothing but contempt for her, honestly.
2 - logic gaps the size of the sun.
3 - I felt like this had potential. If the MC and Jenny had left together - not an unreasonable proposition, since they are both miserable - they could have had a novel-sized adventure. Here's a plot off the top of my head.
They go to the Nex, where Jenny receives something cool to counterpart the jumpgate. The two of them navigate the Great Material Continuum, trading goods between universes and making a fat profit. One of the other ringbearers, who secretly leads a neo-Mexican drug smuggling operation, blows up something and blames them. Penniless, they escape into the multiverse, along with the cyborg, who was also framed, trading, exploring, making new friends, and eventually getting the phlebotnium, the McGuffin, and the proof they need that they are innocent. They then part ways, Jenny becoming
 an apprentice as in the story, and the MC carrying on with the business and/or seeing her parents.
Not the most original, I'll grant, but it wouldn't be as jarring as the story was.
Also, one thing that nobody's pointed out - and the worst time travel mistake that people make - is the small problem that the MC is aging two weeks every other night or so. That's 7 years in one year. Bit noticeable, that...
All in all, a "meh" story, but absolutely NOT centennial-worthy. As a point of interest, Mur, why this one for the centennial? We had a time travel/teleportation story last time too...

[Gamercow]

taking a swipe on ministries to gays(I have personal experiences similar counseling).

Why shouldn't "ministries to gays" aka reprogramming be swiped at?  It is a barbaric practice that is quite often one step away from torture.

[Rain]

As a standalone story i thought it was ok, it was pretty light on plot, i found it unrealistic that Jenny turned from best friend to angry bitch to sobbing victim in a manner on seconds, and that this all-powerful ring was easily replicated by a child. As episode 300 i found it pretty disappointing and as a Tim Pratt story i was very disappointed since i expect great things from him.

To be fair, i didnt like episode 100 and 200 either but i thought they both worked as stand alone stories

[CryptoMe]

to be fair, the smart boy rarely fairs better. (hey Piggy Piggy Piggy)

Too true. The critics didn't like Pierce Brosnan in Volcano (a horribly inaccurate movie, BTW) because he was too sexy to be a scientist.
Either way, for both genders, this has got to stop....

[DKT]

I do find it interesting that the "new" EP team went with a modern story, after the last editor ran two classics for the milestone.  On the other hand, the "new" Podcastle team choose to run a classic recently for no particular milestone, after the old editors ran a modern story for 100.

Actually, Dave and Anna ran that 100th story (which I only know because it was the first story I read for PC after they took over).

Sorry for coming to this a little late...

I guess technically Anna and I ran that one, although we felt giving Rachel the honor of picking the story in question was the right thing to do. (And, of course, we're happy with her selection.)

Congrats on 300 Escape Pods, and thanks to Mur for bringing this one to us. Looking forward to 3000 more 

[Nobilis]

I listened to the introduction to this story and began composing my response to post here. "The contrast between editors couldn't be more stark," I would say. Even, "I'm beginning to wonder if the change was a good thing."  I listened to the beginning and middle of the story. "What happened to 'Have Fun'? as a guiding aesthetic for Escape Pod?" I would ask. "Why do EP stories always have to have such grinding themes?"  I was ready to have to wait a week to write it, because I was getting so confused, and angry, and frustrated.

And then I listened to the ending.  And Mur's closing.  And all was right with the world again.

Thank you, Mur.  This was the perfect episode 300.

[iamafish]

well i enjoyed it.

This is the first major milestone I've been at escape artists for, so i had none of the history of classic SF weighing down on me. I don't see why a round number should be a milestone, who cares? it's just another story, a really good story by a really good author. I'm always a little apathetic about Escape Pod because Sci-Fi just isn't really my go, but i enjoyed this story immensely. Probably my favourite Tim Pratt story to run on EP.

[Devoted135]

Wow, I'm surprised by some of the harsh tones here. This story wasn't my favorite in the world, but then again I enjoyed it and certainly don't think it's a bad story. Similarly with the editorial choice to run it as episode 300: it's tough to pick a story when the expectations for something "special" have been so high and I feel like almost any story could be deemed "not special enough". So, I'm glad that Mur et al went with their gut because that's part of what it takes to be a really great editorial team.


As for the story itself, I agree that there are a lot of illogical decisions being made by both of the main characters, but I can chalk that up to teenagers being illogical. Even "chosen ones" and super-geniuses can only have so much emotional maturity by age 14. I also got really up in arms about the characterization of the Christian parents and like Nobilis I started composing lots of annoyed posts in my head. Then I waited a week to post and decided it just isn't worth it to go over the same old ground again. So, I guess this can serve as my official complaint and I'll leave it at that.

[Unblinking]

Good story, and a lot of stories, need is logical analysis. I like to listen to someone tell a story of people. As a listener, you must understand the twists and turns. . .

You sound so philosophical, I'm not actually sure what your opnion of the story was.   

[Talia]

The ending made me laugh heartily aloud. I think it's absolutely perfect and am pleased he ended it in such a manner. Somehow I felt like I should have seen it coming.

[grokman]

Tim. Pratt. Never disappoints. Although I'll admit that I'm torn as to whether I liked the story better before I found out that it was a sequel/continuation/what-have-you to an earlier Narnia-esque story, or whether I liked it when I thought that all that back-story was just that: back-story. But either way: still loved it, and always excited to see (or rather HEAR) "... written by Tim Pratt..."

[Listener]

I can tell you in one sentence why I liked this story so much more than I might normally have (which is to say: above average): it was a break from a field of Hugo nominees that, with the exception of one (that I didn't even listen to because I'd already read it), I found flat and uninspiring. FINALLY we get away from these plodding, heavy, ostensibly-award-worthy pieces and hear from a Hugo-nominated author who has proven that he can win a Hugo with a story everyone likes! (see: "Impossible Dreams")

The story did have too many tropes and too much angst, and I felt the explanation of why Miranda didn't use the ring was a little too pat, and Jenny turning out to be gay was a bit of a facepalm moment for me, but there was a nice recovery on that last one. I didn't expect the pun to be about time-travel, but about Randy bringing Jenny with her back to the Nex and them having more adventures, et al. I also didn't think Jenny's parents were painted as stereotypical literary Christian villains -- I agree with the people who said they felt the parents really did care about Jenny and wanted the best for her in their own way (and there's a whole discussion about "well-meaning but misguided" waiting to be had on that point).

If anything, the place where the story failed was the burglary and its subsequent explanation of the Darknet (which, by the way, does exist, at least if you ask Wikipedia). It was a nice adventure to start the piece off, but I don't know if the ends justified the means in a literary sense (although, to a 14-year-old, they certainly did).

The mom's boyfriend thing -- given the housing market and how much it costs to live away from your spouse even when you're divorced or separated... totally makes sense. It's happened to a friend of mine before. And, in Georgia, you're considered separated if you sleep in separate beds (as a precursor to divorce in GA, you have to sleep apart, even if it's in the same house, for 31 days).

Overall, a good episode.

[NomadicScribe]

Before I introduce my main point, I want to start with the disclaimer that I really did enjoy this episode. It was well-executed, entertaining, and memorable. I thought that the young teenagers were characterized well, and I was even motivated to seek out the original story. Well done, great marketing.

(Side note: I personally think it might have been an even more satisfying conclusion if the main girl had found a way of breaking free from her parents, instead of waiting for a magical time-traveling workaround from her genius friend; how depressing is it to have the ability to leap through all of time and space, and yet still live under the dominion of overbearing parents?)

For as fun as this story was, however, I don't see that it was x00 commemorative material. (This would be my main point.) You wanted to "look into the future" of sci fi, but instead just gave us a slightly hipper variation on the classic "hero in another world, confined/downtrodden/abused at home" trope which typically dominates fantasy: presented here with sci fi furniture.

But what's more than that, shouldn't every episode of Escape Pod be trying to look into the future of sci fi? Shouldn't the standard episode be about the discovery and proliferation of new, fresh talent?

I like the idea of reexamining the roots of the genre of science fiction, and recognizing and remembering the landmarks in its evolution. So my final question is, if you're not planning to do so for an x00 or even x50 episode, when will you, if at all?

[Talia]

I'd argue what is or isn't a good fit for a whatever-number episode is largely subjective and you're not going to get people in agreeance on it no matter what you do.

But what's more than that, shouldn't every episode of Escape Pod be trying to look into the future of sci fi? Shouldn't the standard episode be about the discovery and proliferation of new, fresh talent?

Er, no. Why should it be? Why not just run good stories, by new talent or otherwise? I mean those are good things, don't get me wrong, but I'd strongly argue that sharing good literature is more important than specifically seeking out new talent.

[NomadicScribe]

That's a good point. But even if every episode isn't a new talent, just how often is it that the program goes back and makes a point of sharing classic material? The majority of the stories are new or newish. Written within the past year or past few years. I think it can be edifying to delve into landmark material from 30, 50, or 70 years into the past. Science fiction has a rich history. But not everyone who is into this show, or who keeps up with publishing trends, is necessarily cognizant of the classic trendsetters in the genre. I just think this would be a worthwhile pursuit.

The only reason I would call out x00 as a potential for "classic" stories is because when I was introduced to Escape Pod, it was with Episode 100. I didn't think the idea of "x00 = commemorative" would be very subjective if it was posited as part of the premise of the show.

[Talia]

Well, it can be somewhat difficult to get the rights for older stories that aren't yet in the public domain. As I understanding it, working with authors' estates can be a bit challenging/time consuming, which is difficult when you're trying to release a podcast on a timely schedule.