EP359: Chasers

[eytanz]

EP359: Chasers

By Scott W. Baker

Read by Mat Weller

Originally appeared in Triangulation anthology (2004)

---

Sebastian’s organs squeezed into his pelvis as he accelerated past point-one.  He had a good feeling this time.  This catch was going to be his.

He could see his objective ahead of him, the enormous Drifter-class colony ship Calypso barreling through space on her inertial journey from Earth to Terra III.  Since she carried no fuel for deceleration, Calypso would travel through space forever without Chasers like Sebastian.  It was the job of a Chaser to run down Drifters and fill their tanks.  The job had sounded easy when he signed with Mulligan Mining eight months ago.  But despite nine arrivals since then, Sebastian has not made one catch.

Calypso was a slow Drifter at a mere point-13 c.  Surely he could catch that.  His Skeeter was designed to reach point-2, faster and more maneuverable than any other company’s ships.  Yet what advantages Skeeters held in speed and agility they sacrificed in capacity.  Even if he caught the Drifter, it took a total of three Skeeters to fill her.

Sebastian ran a scan of Calypso.  Leonard was already docked.  That was too fast for him to have waited for the Drifter’s beacon; he must have taken his Skeeter out without confirmation a Drifter was coming in.  Lucky.  Blind patrols were expensive gambles, especially on a Chaser’s budget.  The exorbitant price of fuel on Earth was the primary reason Drifter-class colonizers dominated the colonization market, and a booming fuel industry made Terra III the most popular destination.  Like most things, it boiled down to money.


Listen to this week’s Escape Pod!

[Thunderscreech]

The scope of the science problems in this story left me unable to get into it.  Ships passing each other at greater than 1-2% the speed of light relative wouldn't be visible as recognizable shapes/colors streaking past.  The idea of a ship at .2+c 'drifting in' to dock with a .16c colony ship makes no sense either, and the basic geometry of the whole 'catch/refuel/turn drifter around and fly to colony world' idea beggars belief.  

I was left with the impression that the author hadn't grasped the fundamental truth of Douglas Adams's observations on just how big space is and consequently could not visualize how inhumanly fast and unforgiving any such environment would be at the relative speeds required for this narrative.

If the drifters had been ocean ships in the Gulfstream and the skeeters a fleet of utility boats based out of an island, this story may have made some sense, but here....  

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space." - DNA

[patriciomas]

Did not like. My big problem with it was that Wilde's decision made no sense. Why wouldn't he or his family sell all of the stock at some point in time before the price crashed? That is how they'd live off them, after all, just selling a little bit at a time instead of all at once. But no, becoming a suicide bomber was the only choice. Maybe Wilde was just a total idiot -- but such an idiot that he's willing to become a terrorist and blow himself up at the drop of the hat? I don't find that satisfying.

Also, "Moooove on" made me want to break something every time someone said it. Too damn cocky.

[matweller]

He didn't become a suicide bomber, he killed himself so that the second half of the bridge would be delayed as much as a lifetime, and the family could keep all of the assets and pretty much guarantee comfort for two generations. I'd be tempted to jump into the volcano if that option were on the table, and I'm much younger and not suicidal.

[InfiniteMonkey]

OOOOOOOOOOO Space opera!!! Ok, just spaceships... yay.

The story was a little familiar in the beginning (ships competing, new guy on the job) and then became the economic consequences story. Put me in mind of the end of things, like the Pony Express and the closing of the open range. But I agree with patriciomas's criticism that Wild probably had more than one way out. Though I'm not sure I'd classify him as a terrorist (which is a slippery term).

[Grumpoid]

A very political story, and kind of unpleasant because of it.

The main character is essentially passive. Why is this his story? What does he do, what does he decide? Not much, other than to go along with covering up Wild's choice. So this is actually Wild the Baby-Killer's story.

My interpretation is that Wild did not wilfully end his own life, but that in creating plausible deniability he had to take a mortal risk, and merely wound up on the wrong side of the percentages. Nothing as noble as self-sacrifice, just experimental incompetence.

Now I like an exploding spaceship as much as the next fan, but this is a thumbnail universe, and I cared more about the people in the drifter than the foul and selfish rocket-monkey that decides the share price of HIS company was worth more than the lives of the thousands of people he is sending to their inevitable doom. ( the story says, it's wasn't like he was killing them - I think it pretty much was, maybe not today or tomorrow, but the first day atmos-resyk packs up on an un-powered barge, out of reach of resupply, they're all dead. Still it's quite Machiavellian - when you move against your enemy make sure to kill all their children ("generation starship" sort of implies children - does what it says on the tin, as they say) because you don't want them growing up to be your enemies and coming back for your children.)

The story was written with all the enthusiasm of nineteen-fifties pulp, with as little regard to accuracy, or language. Plot holes wherever you look, unconvincing characters, unbelievable tech, rubbish physics.

And the "If you don't like it..." motif was (as already been mentioned) deeply irritating, the Mel Brooks term "Authentic frontier gibberish" springs to mind , but it got over the idea that this was a cut throat environment. And that for me was one of (many) reasons the story failed to convince. Survival in marginal environments is reliant on co-operation of groups. That kind of environment, any small group with that kind of attitude would be extinct in pretty short order.

That's all the neg stuff (not really, I could go on for more words than the original story - but to what end, the story was written 8 - 9 years ago, I'm reasonably hopeful the author will be writing better stuff now)

Did I enjoy it? - I think I did actually. A bit miserablist, but it's unusual to get SF so innocently from that end of the political spectrum. I'm happy I've got better stuff to read, but for ten minutes it passed the time - better than a poke with a broom-handle anyway

[Dem]

I'd have got mad at all those things too, if I hadn't been boiling at the stupidity of the Drifter captain. What kind of clueless numpty tells people she doesn't know about a development that will put them out of business AND that the designers are on board AND that it will all get going as soon as they reach their destination? I'll ignore the fact that she's an old, unattractive woman because stereotyping won't be the reason, will it? I like a bit of space opera myself but this seemed to be a few choir boys short of a chorus.

I did like the reading, though 

[Grumpoid]

... if I hadn't been boiling at the stupidity of the Drifter captain. What kind of clueless numpty tells people she doesn't know about a development that will put them out of business AND that the designers are on board AND that it will all get going as soon as they reach their destination? I'll ignore the fact that she's an old, unattractive woman because stereotyping won't be the reason, will it? I like a bit of space opera myself but this seemed to be a few choir boys short of a chorus.

seconded..

Or a more accurate representation of what I thought when I read that might be "Oh yes...and that too"

[Unblinking]

it took me about half of this story to get a grasp of what the basic situation was.  Big lumps of exposition tend to suck, but this was a bit too far in the other direction. 

I wasn't bothered a lot by the scientific implausibility because I don't know much about space travel in that respect.

But the economic implausibility did bother me, why the corporations wouldn't have made a better, less wasteful, system for refueling.

And I find it hard to believe that the loose-lipped captain could be that incredibly stupid.  "Yeah, my passengers are pretty important.  They're going to make your entire career and way of life obsolete in just a few years.  Oh, keep going with that absolutely vital refueling that you're doing for me, will you?  Chop chop!"

Interesting ideas, and I think I liked it more than I disliked it, but there are enough plausibility problems that it was hard to say it was a solid LIKE.

[Ansible]

I see this as a parable of modern energy industry, may be reading too much into it but it feels like the same thing. Yes that kinda brakes down as an analogy because the acceleration system is a monopoly, but close enough.

You have a vastly inefficient monolithic system that benefits those working for it. It's inefficient by design, requiring large enough capital expenditures that individuals cannot hope to brake into the market. They are smart to give out stock a bonuses so the individuals are tied to the success of the industry.

Seems like redneck coal miners in Pennsylvania. Afraid that those dam windmills will take their jobs.

How is it that the guy feels like his family is threatened in 40 years time by his stock being worthless. By then his daughters are grown and have careers of their own. Why do people seem to think that will only be a ok if their children never need to work.

[matweller]

I'm not defending the story, I agree that there could have been some changes to strengthen it. I also must plead ignorance on the physics, so that didn't hamper my enjoyment. But I think some of the criticism has been a bit unfair and perhaps a idealistic...

My interpretation is that Wild did not wilfully end his own life, but that in creating plausible deniability he had to take a mortal risk, and merely wound up on the wrong side of the percentages. Nothing as noble as self-sacrifice, just experimental incompetence.

Of course he sacrificed himself, that's the only solution that lets him save the industry for multiple generations and lets his family retain the money. I agree that Sebastian should have been developed a lot more, and I think the total deference to the drifting generation ship was a bit impossibly callous, especially when one figures what the company on Earth would pay for the rescue and salvage. It seems to me that if two of the Skeeters fueled the ship, even if it wasn't able to fully stop it would be able to decelerate enough for others to catch up and finish the job rather than just waste the whole barge and people on it altogether. Perhaps there was a missed opportunity for the old man to swoop in and "save the day" only to find out in a closing scene fight with 'Bas that he had made them all obsolete by doing so, making the formerly heroic a pariah. Just a thought.

But do we really think a company that sponsored a Drifter would allow the success (and survival) of its investment to be dependent on that flimsy process?
...
Of course not, they would have installed their own line of support ensuring lowest possible costs.

Nothing personal, but you don't have to look far in our own world to see much larger examples of industries and governments with gross inefficiencies that last indefinitely. Here in the US we have an airline industry and an auto industry that would both be dead many times over without huge infusions of cash from the government, despite the fact that there are many other alternatives to both that would cost less. We also have a number of wars that are now over a decade old and staffed by 70-80% private contractors which cost 2 or 3 times what a volunteer army does, but are much easier to hide from the population. Wherever there is gross inefficiency, there is someone with an agenda and motive to perpetuate it. Business, like government does not tend towards efficiency, it tends towards growth and bloat then fervent (sometimes violent) defense of its system rather than update and eventual collapse -- it's the very definition of 'life cycle.'

I'd have got mad at all those things too, if I hadn't been boiling at the stupidity of the Drifter captain. What kind of clueless numpty tells people she doesn't know about a development that will put them out of business AND that the designers are on board AND that it will all get going as soon as they reach their destination?

I think this is the most valid non-physics related criticism so far. I chalked it up to someone on a generation ship not having the same social interactions in a lifetime as the average kid does in 2 weeks of high school, but it does seem that there would be HEAVY warnings from earth that the scientists should not be discussed before they are thawed. I guess also that someone with a limited social circle would be tempted to chat up anybody new. But I mean really, the guys were going to refuel the ship whether they knew what was on it or not. She could have just signed the contract and walked away and all was done

[lisavilisa]

How is it that the guy feels like his family is threatened in 40 years time by his stock being worthless. By then his daughters are grown and have careers of their own. Why do people seem to think that will only be a ok if their children never need to work.

Indeed, if I were him I'd tell those girls to get trained in physics, or whatever it is that new colony with it's new cash cow will need. If one energy industry fails you go into the next one.

[dragonsbreath]

I enjoyed the story up until the ending. It seemed to capture the logistics about space travel, including resources, financial investments and the laws of gravity and thermodynamics.

The ending ruined the story. It was an unreasonable thing to sacrifice one's life and perhaps endanger thousands of others because of change. I wonder if all the candle makers jumped off of bridges when they learned that Thomas Edison invented the lightbulb. The story could have survived the ending if Wild's companions had honestly reported that the "accident" was intentional. Their failure in this regard, as alluded to in the story, was itself a criminal act.

[Oren]

I was enjoying this story, relative velocity problems aside, until it started to telegraph the ending. I saw the whole thing coming when the Captain described how their new set up would out-mode the Fuel Catcher industry. Once that happened, I was screaming in my head for Wild not to do what I knew he was going to do, or for the main character to get off his ass and do something about it.

This was both because the crime in question was so heinous, at best stranding these people on this cramped ship for the rest of their lives, and because it was completely unnecessary. Wild and Bass currently have the kind of information that Investors would kill for. Wild can just go and sell all his stock before the news breaks and make a killing. He could even invest in whatever companies are going to build the “receiving gate.” If the future of his daughters is really all he cares about, this should be a no brainer.

The problem only happens because the character is acting stupid, and that’s never a good sign.

[tpi]

There were extremely severe problems with relative velocities and distances. (If I understood correctly, the main character was supposed not only to see another space ship streaming past him at a speed difference of a significant portion of the light speed, but to see the COLOR of the passing space ship!?). That was so jarring that I missed a portion of the story as started to wonder if I hear what I thought I heard.
And the story supposes that I should feel sympathy for a terrorist? 

[Myrealana]

I liked it, right up until Wild decided to send a spaceship full of people off into oblivion so his kids wouldn't have to work for a living.

I mean seriously. The MC was right. It was going to take years for the catcher to be ready. Worst case scenario, they have to get jobs instead of living off his bonuses for the rest of their lives.

Even better, all Wild had to do was go home, sell off all his stock right away and move his investments. It was going to be six months before the ship reached Earth 3, and in the mean time, only Wild and Sebastian have this insider information and they could make a killing.

A stupid man who did a selfish thing and left thousands of people to who knows what fate because he was too greedy and short-sighted to accept new technology - and Sebastian is as guilty as Wild for not reporting the truth.

Thumbs down for a story that left me yelling at my iPod even more than most political speeches.

[benjaminjb]

My thoughts:

It's a shame that this story didn't entertain me more: the characters aren't particularly interesting, the narrator doesn't really experience much conflict, the main conflict/dilemma occurs off-stage (in Wild's mind), and the characters' decisions don't really make that much sense, on top of questions of the physics. It's like when you read "The Cold Equations" and then start to think about it later: he only carries enough fuel with no safety margin?, he has to toss the little girl out instead of the door that he walks through?, etc.

And I say it's a shame because I think there's an interesting premise here, kind of like Twain in Connecticut Yankee: progress means loss, which may be the specific tragedy of capitalism & technology (new technology creates new opportunities, destroys old opportunities), but may just be the more general human condition of mortality.

My reaction to other comments:

There's a lot of commentary here that assumes we're supposed to be feel some sympathy for Wild, but I'm not sure I see that in the story. Which maybe explains why we get this story through the naive kid rather than through Wild's experience or some other experienced Chaser. (Still, more conflict might be interesting.)

And there's going to be some dictionary-reaching arguments about whether he's a terrorist, which is a loaded term which I think we can put to bed here: terrorism is usually directed towards some political or ideological end-point and requires media attention (as Don DeLillo and William Gibson both note). What Wild is engaged in is crime, with an economic edge, and it only works without media attention. He's more like a vulture capitalist bending the rules--the guy who buys substandard material from one of his companies. Also, while some commenters here suggest that he should look at the big picture and just sell off his shares while they're still valuable, there's a term for that: that's called insider trading and all it does is pass off the loss to some other poor schlub with a family to support.

[Cutter McKay]

The one thing I liked about this story was that it didn't take the obvious ending, which would have been Wild running (or sneaking) through the Colony ship to find the scientists and pull the plug on them. As soon as the stupid captain spelled out the refueling economy's doom it seemed like the story might head in that direction. I was pleased when Sebastian called Wild out on that idea,

“What are you saying?  You aren’t planning to defrost anyone?”
“No, Bas,” Wild said, a little too calmly.

And I enjoyed the rivalry between the Skeeter pilots and the bus driver.

I think that's about the extent of what I liked. The physics issues have been covered, as has the selfishness and absurdity of Wild's final actions. Better alive and poor than dead and rich, in my opinion; and I would bet that Wild's wife and daughters would agree.

My biggest beef with this story, which has been touched on a bit, was the weakness of the protagonist. This is obviously Wild's story, not Sebastian's, and personally, I don't mind having someone's story told from someone else's POV, sometimes it's necessary. But that doesn't excuse the author from making the POV character at least somewhat interesting. Sebastian is not interesting, nor is he anything positive, in my opinion.

He is slow-witted, as he loses the first sale to Harold. He is cowardly, as he hides from all the other pilots for a month out of embarrassment. He's unskilled, as is shown many times by his poor piloting. And in the end, he's unscrupulous as he lies to cover up probably the largest criminal event this colony has seen, at the cost of untold amounts of money and probably lives. You could say that he is at least loyal for covering for Wild, but since he hardly knew the man, I think his participation in this heinous crime is unbelievable at best. It's not like he and Wild were blood-brothers or anything. Would Sebastian really risk everything he has, little as that may be, for this man he barely knows? If so, I think we could add gullible and senseless to the list.

And then there's the fact that he spent the majority of the story reacting rather than acting. Never a strong course of action for any main character. In all, Sebastian fell completely flat for me and killed the story.

Oh, and the crazy and intense character's name being "Wild", was a bit hokey to me.

[flashedarling]

I'd have got mad at all those things too, if I hadn't been boiling at the stupidity of the Drifter captain. What kind of clueless numpty tells people she doesn't know about a development that will put them out of business AND that the designers are on board AND that it will all get going as soon as they reach their destination?

I didn't find it that odd. As a generation ship they probably haven't had too many interactions with outsiders. Her role would be administrator more than ambassador. Plus what those scientists are doing is a genuinely exciting prospect, it is what makes her ship so special. It isn't surprising that she'd be really excited to tell people about it.

I can understand the annoyance at Sebastian. He is a pretty miserable protagonist, this isn't his story. Just something he witnessed. And I'm willing to allow some leeway of the physics. If you rejigger the units and measurements such a scenerio is somewhat plausible. Save for the fact you'll expend way more energy trying to accelerate and decelerate a refueling ship than you would have if you just had the generation ship carry it from the start.  But in any case I found all the motivations extremely believable. Some people literally cannot bear the thought of change and progress, especially when it would mean changing the way the make their livelyhood.  Look at the RIAA, look at the way Disney constantly pushes back Copyright length, look at the oil and coal industries. It doesn't matter if it won't happen during their lifetime, they can't bear the thought it might require them to change from the status quo.

Some of you seem to be under the impression that it only delayed Eternity, it actually doomed it. Lacking the fuel to decelerate and passing beyond the reaches of the system and thus the possibility to ever refuel it will slow down but continue to drift forever. Out of the reach of rescue. I find the actions of Wild and Sebastian to be beyond despicable. It is literally sickening, not just because of the loss of life but because of the retardation of progress. And what of the third skeeter pilot? He is culpable too isn't he? Of course hating the characters didn't make me enjoy the story less. For a space opera that played fast and loose with physics I found it an entirely enjoyable tale.

Of course now I want a story about the brave engineers and navigators of the Eternity. Who with only half of the fuel they would need to stop, much less turn around, need to plot a course that will allow them to the gravitational pull of a Hypergiant star to slingshot themselves back to Terra 3.

[Devoted135]

This is one of those stories where I enjoyed listening to it at the time, and then you all poked it so full of holes it's bleeding all over my desktop.

I'd have got mad at all those things too, if I hadn't been boiling at the stupidity of the Drifter captain. What kind of clueless numpty tells people she doesn't know about a development that will put them out of business AND that the designers are on board AND that it will all get going as soon as they reach their destination?

I didn't find it that odd. As a generation ship they probably haven't had too many interactions with outsiders. Her role would be administrator more than ambassador. Plus what those scientists are doing is a genuinely exciting prospect, it is what makes her ship so special. It isn't surprising that she'd be really excited to tell people about it.

I think you're right about the captain not understanding why she shouldn't be telling her "exciting news." I strongly believe that many of the controversies over climate change, renewable energy and the like would not exist if scientists were simply educated in how to be effective business people and communicators. /scientist

[Dem]

This is one of those stories where I enjoyed listening to it at the time, and then you all poked it so full of holes it's bleeding all over my desktop.

I'd have got mad at all those things too, if I hadn't been boiling at the stupidity of the Drifter captain. What kind of clueless numpty tells people she doesn't know about a development that will put them out of business AND that the designers are on board AND that it will all get going as soon as they reach their destination?

I didn't find it that odd. As a generation ship they probably haven't had too many interactions with outsiders. Her role would be administrator more than ambassador. Plus what those scientists are doing is a genuinely exciting prospect, it is what makes her ship so special. It isn't surprising that she'd be really excited to tell people about it.

I think you're right about the captain not understanding why she shouldn't be telling her "exciting news." I strongly believe that many of the controversies over climate change, renewable energy and the like would not exist if scientists were simply educated in how to be effective business people and communicators. /scientist

At the risk of going 'above and beyond' - this is fiction after all - a generation ship would need to make extensive provision for the mental health of its occupants, which means having access to social communication, which means - pretty quickly - factions, politics, power struggles, and the development of political nous. Even ambassadors are adept negotiators, maybe more so than ships' captains, so the primacy and sensitivity of the frozen cargo could hardly have been a barely considered side issue. This woman's naivete looks like a clumsy plot device that allows the rest of the cast of inadequates to get on with obliterating everyone for short sighted gains. A few tweaks, and it  could have been quite different and much better, I think. 

[Devoted135]

*snip: lots of quoting*

At the risk of going 'above and beyond' - this is fiction after all - a generation ship would need to make extensive provision for the mental health of its occupants, which means having access to social communication, which means - pretty quickly - factions, politics, power struggles, and the development of political nous. Even ambassadors are adept negotiators, maybe more so than ships' captains, so the primacy and sensitivity of the frozen cargo could hardly have been a barely considered side issue. This woman's naivete looks like a clumsy plot device that allows the rest of the cast of inadequates to get on with obliterating everyone for short sighted gains. A few tweaks, and it  could have been quite different and much better, I think. 

Oh, I definitely agree, those measures should (and most likely would) have been in place. Just to play devil's advocate though, sometimes even the best plans don't seem to work out when stretched over generations. Makes me think of City of Ember by Jeanne DuPrau, and how the city's long-term plans were accidentally lost to history simply because something got misplaced one time (purposefully vague- go read it if you haven't!).

Although, a more apt reference might actually be Wall-E. It should be pretty simple to program a computer to give specific instructions - don't discuss our technology with anyone - to the captain right when the instructions are most relevant. One wonders if the programmers simply didn't think of that, or if the instructions weren't given enough weight by the current captain.

[Balu]

And the "If you don't like it..." motif was (as already been mentioned) deeply irritating, the Mel Brooks term "Authentic frontier gibberish" springs to mind , but it got over the idea that this was a cut throat environment. And that for me was one of (many) reasons the story failed to convince. Survival in marginal environments is reliant on co-operation of groups. That kind of environment, any small group with that kind of attitude would be extinct in pretty short order.

I disagree. Human survival in marginal environments is reliant on co-operation of people within groups, but those groups will often be involved in fights over scant resources.

That's why human nature is what it is. Evolution pretty much demands that we be willing and able to whack rival tribes, and so we do. Just look at the news.

[Balu]

My big problem with it was that Wilde's decision made no sense. Why wouldn't he or his family sell all of the stock at some point in time before the price crashed?

Maybe because of pride, or a need for identity.  Maybe just that he didn't trust investment portfolios as much as he trusted his family's expertise.

I agree that the guy wasn't exactly a rational actor, but so what? Suprisingly few people are.

[Balu]

The story was written with all the enthusiasm of nineteen-fifties pulp, with as little regard to accuracy, or language. Plot holes wherever you look, unconvincing characters, unbelievable tech, rubbish physics.

The characters weren't that bad, and as for the rest, I don't see it as a criticism. The story was all the better for that bold 1950s style.

Funnily enough, I did actually think that this was a classic from way back when, and was quite suprised to see that it was only published in 2004!

[Balu]

At the risk of going 'above and beyond' - this is fiction after all - a generation ship would need to make extensive provision for the mental health of its occupants, which means having access to social communication, which means - pretty quickly - factions, politics, power struggles, and the development of political nous. Even ambassadors are adept negotiators, maybe more so than ships' captains, so the primacy and sensitivity of the frozen cargo could hardly have been a barely considered side issue. This woman's naivete looks like a clumsy plot device that allows the rest of the cast of inadequates to get on with obliterating everyone for short sighted gains. A few tweaks, and it  could have been quite different and much better, I think. 

Interesting point. Although perhaps a population which was conditioned to enjoy a high level of mental health would be quite naive about how crazy outside people can be.

[InfiniteMonkey]

What kind of clueless numpty tells people she doesn't know about a development that will put them out of business AND that the designers are on board AND that it will all get going as soon as they reach their destination?

Oh, I encounter people like that ALL THE TIME. People who'll give arguments from "principle" not knowing or caring the psychological effect on the listener. Even when it's their job to help the listener. People who are just too thick to see any other viewpoint beyond their own or too clueless to understand the effect of what they're talking about.

I don't need complicated arguments about generational ships to buy that one. 

[Dem]

At the risk of going 'above and beyond' - this is fiction after all - a generation ship would need to make extensive provision for the mental health of its occupants, which means having access to social communication, which means - pretty quickly - factions, politics, power struggles, and the development of political nous. Even ambassadors are adept negotiators, maybe more so than ships' captains, so the primacy and sensitivity of the frozen cargo could hardly have been a barely considered side issue. This woman's naivete looks like a clumsy plot device that allows the rest of the cast of inadequates to get on with obliterating everyone for short sighted gains. A few tweaks, and it  could have been quite different and much better, I think. 

Interesting point. Although perhaps a population which was conditioned to enjoy a high level of mental health would be quite naive about how crazy outside people can be.

In a generational ship, they would have their own craziness. But you don't have to be crazy to take sides, there are plenty of social psychology experiments that show how easily groups form identities and then start repelling boarders or trying to take over the opposition. I can't see how anyone in charge could be anything other than shrewd and savvy about potential manipulation. Actually, they might be more than a match for the chasers as psychopathy is a key feature of business and leadership success. On a dimension, of course; I don't think Richard Branson is a serial killer. Not so sure about Virgin rail sandwiches though 

[Bdoomed]

Pretty much everything I want to say has been said already. The story was pretty fun at first, I was really rooting for him to get that first catch. The unveiling of the new system that would remove the need for fueling sent the story somewhat downwards. It got predictable, in a bad way. (It was predictable before though, obviously he was going to finally make a catch)

Wild's reaction to the news was stupid, the others' handling of the situation was stupid, etc. But somehow, all that doesn't seem so far out of the realm of believability. I'm sure that even today, stupid people are ridding the world of life-changing inventions. It's why we don't have cars that run on water. Why wouldn't that happen out in space in the future as well?

[tpi]

I'm sure that even today, stupid people are ridding the world of life-changing inventions. It's why we don't have cars that run on water. Why wouldn't that happen out in space in the future as well?

No, the reason we don't have cars running on water isn't that the invention is suppressed. It is because it is impossible.

[Cattfish]

For those interested in learning more,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car

the basic idea would be to use electricity to split water, forming H and O, and then use the energy of that H to "burn" it back into water.  Of course there's no way this will be a self-sustaining system (re: 2nd law of thermodynamics) since it takes more energy to form water.  So what you actually need to do is have a constant supply of hydrogen (think fueling stations).  It's the exact same thing, except the splitting is done by your local Shell station

[Unblinking]

Also, while some commenters here suggest that he should look at the big picture and just sell off his shares while they're still valuable, there's a term for that: that's called insider trading and all it does is pass off the loss to some other poor schlub with a family to support.

You are right that that would be insider trading.  You are also right that it would be passing his loss to another poor schlub with a family to support.  So instead he commits a major sabotage crime that will pass it off to many many others with families to support, quite possibly sennding the residents of that ship to die on the ship even if their kids live on, and quite possibly bankrupting the sender of the ship and taking down all their employees with them. 

Both are crimes.  Both would benefit Wild's family to the cost of many others.  To me the insider trading seems less injurious in general in that it wouldn't doom the generation ship and all those on it.  But in any case, I think that given Wild's methods, goals, and ethics, it would've been an entirely reasonable alternate solution.  Then again, he's just so wild he might not have thought about it.


 

Oh, and the crazy and intense character's name being "Wild", was a bit hokey to me.

Why?  I don't think that was his birth name.  I think it's part of a typical astronaut culture in our time to take a nickname that everyone calls you.   Why not "Wild" for a wild one.  Not particularly clever, but it's descriptive

[benjaminjb]

To me the insider trading seems less injurious in general ...

I agree with that--I just wanted to point out that Wild's options are limited and all hurtful in some degree: (1) lose the work and equity he's built up working as a chaser; (2) let some other person bear the burden of the suddenly-not-so-valuable shares (insider trading); (3) destroy or delay the possibility of non-chaser technology (as well as either killing or exiling* everyone on-board the generation ship).

[Edited to eliminate my annoying tendency towards double negatives, i.e., "I don't disagree"-->"I agree"]

He chooses (3), which you and I may agree is the worst option, as long as we also agree that all his options are bad--which is why I called the story a tragedy.

*This is a whole separate issue, but I'm not sure we have enough information to adequately say what will happen to the generation starship. If it's a self-sustaining generation ship (e.g., Heinlein, "Universe"), it might go on for a very long time, barring it doesn't fall into a star. And for that calculation, I refer to Douglas Adams: "Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is."

[Cutter McKay]

Oh, and the crazy and intense character's name being "Wild", was a bit hokey to me.

Why?  I don't think that was his birth name.  I think it's part of a typical astronaut culture in our time to take a nickname that everyone calls you.   Why not "Wild" for a wild one.  Not particularly clever, but it's descriptive

You know, you're right. I forgot the line that explained how he wasn't born Johnny Wild, but no one knew anything else to call him. I formally retract my previous complaint.

[chemistryguy]

The story was written with all the enthusiasm of nineteen-fifties pulp, with as little regard to accuracy, or language. Plot holes wherever you look, unconvincing characters, unbelievable tech, rubbish physics.

Which is probably why I loved this so much...except for the "moooooove over".  By the 25th time, blood began oozing out of my ears.

All manner of tropes were satisfied with no messy technical explanations or character development.  If I had my druthers, I would have included an overbearing skeeter dispatcher.  Tobacco-laced spittle would fly from his mouth as he screamed obscenities at Sebastian for making such a bone-headed maneuver.  Hijinks would ensue.


I'll agree that Wilde's decision was not very well thought out, but you can't don't blame him.  He's written as an extremely impulsive person, and an impulsive action is precisely what he takes.  I'd take a fiery, explosive death in exchange for the well-being of my children.  I can't say I'd doom a shipload of people in process.  So it goes. 

Didn't they include any emergency protocol should something go wrong?  Especially one that is carrying such "important" passengers.  Have we learned NOTHING following the sinking of the S.S. Titanic other than naked photos will always resurface somewhere?  No?  Than I guess this story reflects reality more than some would be willing to admit.   

Damn!  I've gone and read a deeper meaning into this one.  Sorry 'bout that.

[Unblinking]

[Edited to eliminate my annoying tendency towards double negatives, i.e., "I don't disagree"-->"I agree"]

For what it's worth, I consider "I don't disagree" a perfectly valid phrase, with a different shade of meaning than "I agree".  I tend to say that when my response to someone's argument is somewhat neutral, that is I don't see it exactly as they do but I don't think they're wrong etiher.

He chooses (3), which you and I may agree is the worst option, as long as we also agree that all his options are bad--which is why I called the story a tragedy.

Fair enough!

[Max e^{i pi}]

Wow. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought this story had more holes in it than a pumice stone.
Also, I'm not sure if it was my player or my downloaded file, but at 21:20 I lost 8 seconds of sound, and Matt picked up as if he had been speaking for the past 8 seconds...

I found, though, that if I turn off my analytical brain the story was pretty good.

[Special Ed]

Nearly every mention of time, distance, or speed is deeply flawed.  While I somewhat enjoyed the story while I listened to it, when it was over and I started thinking the numbers involved I got more and more annoyed, to the point that it is now 15 hours later and the first thing I'm doing with my work day is posting about it. 

As a very simple example, it should have taken our "hero" at least 56hours to change his speed by .1c.  And that is a face-melting constant 15g acceleration.  There are lots of other examples of horrible math but just sharing that one makes me feel better.  If the author had left off any mention of speed or distance, it would have been easier to take (and then we would have merely had problems with characters making awful decisions.)

For those that are interested in the math--
c = 300,000,000 meters per second (okay, it is actually  299,792,458 m/s but close enough)
So .1c = 30,000,000 m/s
the equation for a simple change in velocity is V = a * t.  (Change in velocity equals acceleration multiplied by time.)
I will assume a constant acceleration of 15g (which is crazily high, but seemingly tolerable by human beings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force#Horizontal_axis_g-force)
15g = 15 times the force of gravity on Earth which is 9.8 m/s = 147m/s
30,000,000/147 = 204081 seconds = 3401 minutes = 56 hours

[Special Ed]

One other thing- as soon as the naive Captain started spilling the beans about the cargo, I expected a much different ending.  I thought that Wild would negotiate an outlandishly high fee for the fuel and that our "hero" would get a large enough bonus check that he could retire after only a single catch.

"Look, Captain, if we don't fuel your ship, this 3 trillion megabuck project goes right down the drain.  Not to mention the 6,000 lives of your passengers.   Trust me, you don't want that on your hands just because you were trying to save a few dollars of someone else's money."

[Talia]

Well I enjoyed it as a fun little space adventure. I'm not interested in/don't care about any math/science glitches so the apparent faults there didn't bother me.

I was sure everyone would like this one too, go figure. *scratches head*

[Unblinking]

Well I enjoyed it as a fun little space adventure. I'm not interested in/don't care about any math/science glitches so the apparent faults there didn't bother me.

I was sure everyone would like this one too, go figure. *scratches head*

That's what you get for being sure about people's opinions.   

[chemistryguy]

Nearly every mention of time, distance, or speed is deeply flawed.  While I somewhat enjoyed the story while I listened to it, when it was over and I started thinking the numbers involved I got more and more annoyed, to the point that it is now 15 hours later and the first thing I'm doing with my work day is posting about it. 

As a very simple example, it should have taken our "hero" at least 56hours to change his speed by .1c.  And that is a face-melting constant 15g acceleration.  There are lots of other examples of horrible math but just sharing that one makes me feel better.  If the author had left off any mention of speed or distance, it would have been easier to take (and then we would have merely had problems with characters making awful decisions.)

For those that are interested in the math--
c = 300,000,000 meters per second (okay, it is actually  299,792,458 m/s but close enough)
So .1c = 30,000,000 m/s
the equation for a simple change in velocity is V = a * t.  (Change in velocity equals acceleration multiplied by time.)
I will assume a constant acceleration of 15g (which is crazily high, but seemingly tolerable by human beings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force#Horizontal_axis_g-force)
15g = 15 times the force of gravity on Earth which is 9.8 m/s = 147m/s
30,000,000/147 = 204081 seconds = 3401 minutes = 56 hours

Two words:
Inertia dampener

[Max e^{i pi}]

Nearly every mention of time, distance, or speed is deeply flawed.  While I somewhat enjoyed the story while I listened to it, when it was over and I started thinking the numbers involved I got more and more annoyed, to the point that it is now 15 hours later and the first thing I'm doing with my work day is posting about it.  

As a very simple example, it should have taken our "hero" at least 56hours to change his speed by .1c.  And that is a face-melting constant 15g acceleration.  There are lots of other examples of horrible math but just sharing that one makes me feel better.  If the author had left off any mention of speed or distance, it would have been easier to take (and then we would have merely had problems with characters making awful decisions.)

For those that are interested in the math--
c = 300,000,000 meters per second (okay, it is actually  299,792,458 m/s but close enough)
So .1c = 30,000,000 m/s
the equation for a simple change in velocity is V = a * t.  (Change in velocity equals acceleration multiplied by time.)
I will assume a constant acceleration of 15g (which is crazily high, but seemingly tolerable by human beings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force#Horizontal_axis_g-force)
15g = 15 times the force of gravity on Earth which is 9.8 m/s = 147m/s
30,000,000/147 = 204081 seconds = 3401 minutes = 56 hours

Two words:
Inertia dampener

Why  not bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish while you're at it?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Grumpoid]

Why  not bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish while you're at it?

Sorry, couldn't resist.


Gadzooks! Thank you for that.

[Scatcatpdx]

I am not one to nit pick on the science; I just want a good story not a physics lesson. This was not a good story. The ending killed the story for me.

The  story really did not have much until Sebastian's first catch. Both men's animals action really upsets  me. Wild  condemns 6000+ poor souls in a narcissistic attempt to protect the job and family  and Sebastian's, now  a cold heart accessory to mas murder, covers up and rationalizes the deed to tough competition .

It would  be a better story if told  as Sebastian being lead off to the gallows or air lock.

It kind of reminds me of Longshoremen attempt to block innovation  of cargo tracking (bar code scanning etc) that would leave their  job obsolete.

[Balu]

In a generational ship, they would have their own craziness. But you don't have to be crazy to take sides, there are plenty of social psychology experiments that show how easily groups form identities and then start repelling boarders or trying to take over the opposition. I can't see how anyone in charge could be anything other than shrewd and savvy about potential manipulation. Actually, they might be more than a match for the chasers as psychopathy is a key feature of business and leadership success. On a dimension, of course; I don't think Richard Branson is a serial killer. Not so sure about Virgin rail sandwiches though 

Well that's my point. Taking sides doesn't have to be crazy.

The generational ship's captain probably thought like some people above, that the guy will just be sensible, shrug his shoulders, and rearrange his investment portfolio. She may even have thought he'd be grateful for the warning.

[KP Duty]

Well I enjoyed it as a fun little space adventure. I'm not interested in/don't care about any math/science glitches so the apparent faults there didn't bother me.

I was sure everyone would like this one too, go figure. *scratches head*

Me too. This was my favorite Escape Pod episode since #78: The Shoulders of Giants, and I've slogged through a lot of near-future, dystopian, "Steve (or later Mur) may be pointing at it and saying science fiction, but I'm really not sure why" stories waiting for another silly, pulpy, space-opera story that I can hear while driving and not be totally lost if I miss 10 seconds in traffic.

The speed of light stuff bothered me for half an instant and then I decided to let it go and just enjoy the story. I needed an escape today, and this one fit the bill.

[El Barto]

Also, while some commenters here suggest that he should look at the big picture and just sell off his shares while they're still valuable, there's a term for that: that's called insider trading and all it does is pass off the loss to some other poor schlub with a family to support.

This is almost certainly NOT insider trading, assuming the laws of distant space are the same as current U.S. law, because insider trading is only illegal when someone improperly discloses confidential information.   

If the space captain was allowed to talk about it, the news was public and Wild was simply the first person in the new part of space to know. 

For a fun time, read about the famous case of SEC v Switzer in which "Barry Switzer, then-Oklahoma football coach, was prosecuted by the SEC in 1981 after he and his friends purchased shares in Phoenix Resources, an oil company. Switzer was at a track meeting when he overhead a conversation between executives concerning the liquidation of the business. He purchased the stock at around $42 per share, and later sold at $59, making around $98,000 in the process. The charges against him were later dismissed" because there was no evidence he did anything wrong.  http://beginnersinvest.about.com/cs/newinvestors/a/102702a.htm

Idiots who blurt things out can instantly turn highly confidential information into public information that everyone else can act on.  The moral question of whether it is right to pass on your shares in stock to "some other poor schlub" is an interesting one because almost every stock trade is voluntary and both parties think they are getting a good deal based on their information.

[El Barto]

I wish Sebastian had grown a pair of balls and said to Wild, “After all your posturing, all your little speeches, you're nothing but a common thief.”

Wild didn’t nobly kill himself to provide for his children but rather died in a calculated risk that, had it gone right, would have been a crime against humanity as he vented the fuel into space. 

Wild’s crime against humanity was mind-bogglingly unnecessary given that he already collected 60+ bonuses and likely would collect that many more in the coming years.  And there is no reason to think that his kids are somehow unfit to earn their own living, which would not remotely excuse his actions but would at least create some vaguely credible context.

Lastly, I have to also add my two cents to the complete irrationality of the plot’s allowing the “news” to be leaked by a drifter captain.  If Apple keeps the new iPhone under tight wraps, and druglords kill people for possibly being moles, you can bet that if someone is going to invest in a multi-trillion dollar initiative that has any potential enemies, there will be an incredibly robust (likely military) plan to protect the entire plan and its players.  Everyone on the far side will be bribed and incentivized to want to make the transition happen. 

P.S.  Great narrating

[matweller]

Just within the past year, many,many people have died in sealed shipping containers and assorted hideaways because the people paid to smuggle them across the boarder didn't want to get caught by the police and hurt their business. Twice in the past two years, MI and PA agencies have ordered people raising animals (a dog breeder and a farmer raising illegal boars) to "get rid of them" or be taken to jail. So they did. Slave traders used to dump "live cargo" at the drop of a hat to protect themselves and dodge the law. This kind of cruelty is not unprecedented and not even rare. It may make you queezy, but it's not unrealistic by a long shot.

Regardless, none of it would have been necessary if they just had Knight Industries design the barge...

[tpi]

I am not one to nit pick on the science; I just want a good story not a physics lesson. This was not a good story. 

The story can never be good, if the physics in it are as bad as in this tale.

[Max e^{i pi}]

I am not one to nit pick on the science; I just want a good story not a physics lesson. This was not a good story.  

The story can never be good, if the physics in it are as bad as in this tale.

At the risk of derailing the thread...
Once I started taking college courses in physics, my enjoyment of Scifi (and to some extent, fantasy) has changed. Suddenly it became so much harder to suspend my sense of disbelief. While I used to enjoy Star Trek for the cool tech, now I watch it when I need something campy.
Also, I got kicked out of a movie theater for having an understanding of physics. I got dragged by my friend to watch the last Harry Potter movie, and in that one scene SPOILER ALERT where they are breaking into Gringots and fall down really far and Hermione does a spell and they don't hit the ground but stop an inch above it SPOILER ALERT I cringed and yelled out loud "PHYSICS!". Because stopping just above the ground is no better than being stopped by the ground. Your inertia is still there, and all that potential energy needs to go somewhere. Usually towards turning a human body into Jell-O.
Anyway, science fiction isn't about bad science, it's about good writing. And in my opinion, good writing comes from good research, so that you can get the science right.

[Dem]

I'm kinda with you there, Max, although I'm spared the agonies of enduring bad physics because I don't know that much (the Potter incident passed me by, but I had that in the fantasy category, so it wouldn't have mattered). For me, as a psychologist, it's integrity of behaviour I need, which is why this story had me twitching. So you're right - having too much knowledge can scupper your enjoyment of fiction unless the author either knows as much or can convince you of that. And Star Trek? Well, the classic Roddenberry response to the question 'How do the inertial dampers work?' applies in spades - 'Very well, thank you!'

[chemistryguy]

At the risk of derailing the thread...

The train has left the tracks.

I haven't established how many posters here are writers yet, but there seem to be quite a few.  I'm going to speculate a bit and say that a writer's experience of this story probably differs from those who don't write for a living (or at least those who write regularly).

I can understand and appreciate the level of research that must go into writing a story, but I can also appreciate a complete departure of these ideals.  The job of Chasers is to be completely camp, and it does it very well.  It was an easy listen, so the doubting parts of my mind shut down without my asking them to do so.

On the other hand, I did question the physics behind Episode 357 - Connoisseurs of the Eccentric.  I was unsatisfied with the explanations, most likely because the story did take itself seriously.

[Unblinking]

I am not one to nit pick on the science; I just want a good story not a physics lesson. This was not a good story. 

The story can never be good, if the physics in it are as bad as in this tale.

It really depends on what kind of story you're looking for.  I don't think this could ever be an Analog story, because Analog has cultivated an audience that wants the scientific details right.  For me, I recognized that the details of the speed especially didn't make scientific sense, but I didn't particularly care about that, while the behavior of the ship's captain blabbing I found hard to believe.

[Unblinking]

Usually towards turning a human body into Jell-O.

Although I'm aware of the physics problems in that moment of the Harry Potter movie, I didn't consider them problematic because it's magic.  If I were crafting a spell that would stop me from falling, then I would find a way to apply inertia dampening as well, so why not build it in?

For a discussion of this kind of thing, I highly recommend The Physics of Superheroes by James Kakalios.  He uses superheroes to discuss a variety of physics concepts.  For each hero he gives them one free implausibility pass (i.e. Cyclops can project force beams from his eyes), and then discusses further implications of it (i.e. that if Cyclops has an ordinary spine he would snap his own neck the first time he used his force beams).  Among other things, he does discuss the inertia problem of rescuing falling people, an oft botched detail in superhero stories--and at least one example of when it was done right (Spider-Man, surprisingly, though the dialog doesn't match the scene).  Really great stuff:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Physics-Superheroes-James-Kakalios/dp/1592402429/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1347371140&sr=8-2&keywords=physics+of+superheroes

[Max e^{i pi}]

Usually towards turning a human body into Jell-O.

Although I'm aware of the physics problems in that moment of the Harry Potter movie, I didn't consider them problematic because it's magic.  If I were crafting a spell that would stop me from falling, then I would find a way to apply inertia dampening as well, so why not build it in?

Because magic has its own rules as well.
I also allow a certain amount of implausibility clauses (Like in Battlestar Galactica they can jump faster than the speed of light and have artificial gravity, but everything else works fine with modern physics).
However, when crafting a magic spell to save oneself from falling one cannot simply ignore the laws of physics. The potential energy must go somewhere. One cannot simply "magic" it way. Just like traffic laws don't interfere with physics laws, so too magic laws shouldn't.

[chemistryguy]

Usually towards turning a human body into Jell-O.

Although I'm aware of the physics problems in that moment of the Harry Potter movie, I didn't consider them problematic because it's magic.  If I were crafting a spell that would stop me from falling, then I would find a way to apply inertia dampening as well, so why not build it in?

Because magic has its own rules as well.
I also allow a certain amount of implausibility clauses (Like in Battlestar Galactica they can jump faster than the speed of light and have artificial gravity, but everything else works fine with modern physics).
However, when crafting a magic spell to save oneself from falling one cannot simply ignore the laws of physics. The potential energy must go somewhere. One cannot simply "magic" it way. Just like traffic laws don't interfere with physics laws, so too magic laws shouldn't.

If they can make use of 4th dimensional space (as with their small on the outside, enormous on the inside tents), adjust the flow of time and make changes to the continuum, and create living things out of inanimate objects, I can't question a simple problem like inertia.

[Dem]

I LOVE this forum! 

[Special Ed]

However, when crafting a magic spell to save oneself from falling one cannot simply ignore the laws of physics. The potential energy must go somewhere. One cannot simply "magic" it way. Just like traffic laws don't interfere with physics laws, so too magic laws shouldn't.

I think it depends entirely on the magic "system" involved.  Terry Pratchett deals with this nicely in one way (see the seventh quotehttp://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Colour_of_Magic_by_Terry_Pratchett).  Even the ancient Dungeons and Dragons cartoon touched on this (http://www.dungeonsdragonscartoon.com/2009/08/day-of-dungeon-master.html)  Other systems take other approaches. 

Suddenly I'm picturing a world that is the "sink" for the various forces that are magically ignored in another world.

[Unblinking]

Because magic has its own rules as well.
I also allow a certain amount of implausibility clauses (Like in Battlestar Galactica they can jump faster than the speed of light and have artificial gravity, but everything else works fine with modern physics).
However, when crafting a magic spell to save oneself from falling one cannot simply ignore the laws of physics. The potential energy must go somewhere. One cannot simply "magic" it way. Just like traffic laws don't interfere with physics laws, so too magic laws shouldn't.

Sez you.    I'm not saying that to be rude, but you can't dictate what people can and can't do with magic in stories.  It's magic, it can do whatever the author decides it can do.  If you don't like that kind of magic, that's your prerogative.  But it's not objectively wrong to use magic that way in a story (and keep in mind that the movies add lots of stupid stuff like that that weren't in the books)

If you have a problem with the conservation of energy in that scene, there's such a problem inherent in the very magic system of that fictional universe.  The energy for magic doesn't come from anywhere, except for saying Latin-esque words and waving a wand.  Where does the energy come from?  Give me some good old fashioned blood sacrifices and I can do some handwaving about the potential vital and causal energy that might be harvested by cutting a lifeform's existence short.

[chemistryguy]

Suddenly I'm picturing a world that is the "sink" for the various forces that are magically ignored in another world.

Is this sort of like a conservation of magic?  You can do magic, but there's always a price.  And in this case, one world gets all the good stuff while another gets stuck with the bill?  Or am I interpreting this all wrong?

[Max e^{i pi}]

Suddenly I'm picturing a world that is the "sink" for the various forces that are magically ignored in another world.

Is this sort of like a conservation of magic?  You can do magic, but there's always a price.  And in this case, one world gets all the good stuff while another gets stuck with the bill?  Or am I interpreting this all wrong?

That's somewhat the way I see it.
We are so deeply ingrained into the causality of reality, that it is difficult to imagine a system that does not adhere to this "simple" rule.
Lifting an object up a gravity well requires energy, an object falling down a gravity well releases energy. Cause and effect. The pencil fell off the table, the energy of the fall was expended in breaking the pencil (and also a bounce or two). That energy must go somewhere, maybe to another universe. In fact, there was an Isaac Asimov book about this, the transferal of matter and energy from one universe to another to provide "free" energy. (The Gods Themselves).

Yes, (Unblinking, pay attention), a magical system can be imagined that will be able to completely disregard the laws of physics as we understand them. And I did not imagine such a magical system, but one based on more "mundane" rules. But that's sort of the point I'm making: the more I understand the laws of physics, the harder it is for me to see them completely disregarded.

[El Barto]

This concept could be part of a wonderful story that explains how magic is real and is actually pure science in the form of energy being shuttled back and forth between dimensions.   I can already picture another world where the heat and momentum from our "magic" is released or stored until we need it back.

[SF.Fangirl]

I'd have got mad at all those things too, if I hadn't been boiling at the stupidity of the Drifter captain. What kind of clueless numpty tells people she doesn't know about a development that will put them out of business AND that the designers are on board AND that it will all get going as soon as they reach their destination?

I think this is the most valid non-physics related criticism so far. I chalked it up to someone on a generation ship not having the same social interactions in a lifetime as the average kid does in 2 weeks of high school, but it does seem that there would be HEAVY warnings from earth that the scientists should not be discussed before they are thawed. I guess also that someone with a limited social circle would be tempted to chat up anybody new. But I mean really, the guys were going to refuel the ship whether they knew what was on it or not. She could have just signed the contract and walked away and all was done
[/quote]

I agree that the Captain was stupid but she did grow up among people who were trained to build and maintain this great accomplishment so she's understandably proud in addition to being clueless about social interactions.  Still it was such an obviously a stupid mistake from the moment she started talking about it that it did hurt the story.

[SF.Fangirl]

I enjoyed this story.  I absolutely hated what Wild did, but it happened with only a minute or two left so it didn't ruin my enjoyment of the story.

It's very odd for a sci fi story though.  Wild is sort of the hero and Sebastian seemed to idolize him and agree with his actions, but in the end he delays scientific advancement for completely selfish and illogical reasons.  Wild and Sebastian go from being characters the readers' envy because they're enjoying the fruits of scientific advancement we won't live to see to being the asshole jocks who beat up the smart kids in school.  It's just weird to read a sci fi story where the hero opposes progress for purely selfish reasons.  And despite my vehement disagreement with Wild's actions there's no hint that the author wants us to think what Wild did is wrong.

[scpasson]

I see the story of evil people trying to convince themselves or us that they are not evil.  The characters felt to goody goody for their actions at the end.  If there were incidents where ships were not caught earlier in the story (either because of interference between groups of chasers or that it was a ship that was unlikely to be able to pay), then the justification of personal financial against trapping unknown thousands in space could be appreciated as chasers not really caring about the lives of the passengers and acting as modern day smugglers do. I thought the justification was supposed to sound flimsy and the actions deplorable.  That said the transition from seemingly good guy to murder did not feel natural.  I want to see the descent to villainy or corruption of a character and the switch was to sudden for me to buy into it.  I liked Wyld, then I found out he was a scumbag and dead.  I would have preferred  to hate him for a while then see him get his due later, or seen his descent to villany slower so that I could wish he made better decisions earlier. 

Also since information can travel at the speed of light, I would have expected plans to be sent out by the company and local producers to generate the catching mechanism for either a stake in the company or large fees.  The new technology must have some advantage either in cost or time so the locations where a receiving stations are in place may be favored by emigrants which might also destroy the chaser business  for that system.   The chasing companies would probably favor the new tech as cost saving measures and still cut the chasers loose.  Since ships would always travel slower than information I would expect colonists always arriving out of date, not on the leading edge of tech.  Then we could have the story of someone who left earth to be a Chaser, and arrived finding out the job didn't exist anymore. 

[Unblinking]

Yes, (Unblinking, pay attention), a magical system can be imagined that will be able to completely disregard the laws of physics as we understand them. And I did not imagine such a magical system, but one based on more "mundane" rules. But that's sort of the point I'm making: the more I understand the laws of physics, the harder it is for me to see them completely disregarded.

I am paying attention now, and I was before--my disagreement with you wasn't because of lack of attention.   Actually, I find the idea of a magic system that maintains conservation of energy very appealing.  I tend to prefer magic systems that have a cost associated with every gain--not because I feel that magic has to follow basic laws of physics but because that means that the characters' choices are, by necessity, harder.

When you say "the more I understand the laws of physics, the harder it is for me to see them completely disregarded".  I can't argue with that.  I don't tend to agree--I can often just laugh these plausibility holes off if it's an entertaining story, but you are expressing your personal tastes and your personal tastes can't be wrong.

What I CAN argue with is when you said "However, when crafting a magic spell to save oneself from falling one cannot simply ignore the laws of physics", that's just not true.  Harry Potter does this in general, as I pointed out, and this has not hurt Rowling's popularity.  It might be true for a fictional world that you create, or for a particular fictional world that someone else has created, but it's just not true if you're talking about all fictional worlds, let alone all potential fictional worlds.  You could make a handwaving explanation about that extra energy being diverted to other worlds, and this is entertaining and interesting but I don't think there's any indication that that was intended by the text.  If someone says "this cannot be done" to disprove, all one has to do is name one example of it being done. 

Now if you said "one SHOULD not simply ignore the laws of physics" then that would be an opinion based on taste that I couldn't say is incorrect.

[CryptoMe]

The story didn't work for me either. As has already been pointed out, too many detail flaws.

Another thing that stuck out for me was the concept that, after Wild guy exploded, none of the other chasers would be able to catch the generational ship because they had already turned back. Really? Hadn't they just done that a few minutes ago (the time it took for the MC to meet and talk with the generational ship captain)? If the refueling ships can get from their base to the generation ship in relatively short time (not sure how long it was, but the story implied it was much less than a day), why would a few minutes make any difference? Not consistent within the world the author created.

[Unblinking]

The story didn't work for me either. As has already been pointed out, too many detail flaws.

Another thing that stuck out for me was the concept that, after Wild guy exploded, none of the other chasers would be able to catch the generational ship because they had already turned back. Really? Hadn't they just done that a few minutes ago (the time it took for the MC to meet and talk with the generational ship captain)? If the refueling ships can get from their base to the generation ship in relatively short time (not sure how long it was, but the story implied it was much less than a day), why would a few minutes make any difference? Not consistent within the world the author created.

Not only that, but the generation ship now has 2/3 of the fuel payload they need to slow down for their destination, so they can make themselves easier to catch by burning what they have.

[Scattercat]

I've heard that you can replace the caption of every cartoon in the New Yorker with the phrase "Christ, what an asshole," and it will fit perfectly.

For some reason, that factoid popped into my head after hearing this story.  Weird.  I wonder why.

[LaShawn]

To me, most of the this story was "Blabbity blah blah ship, blah blah MOOOOOOOVE ONNNNNNN, blabbity blabbity blah blah blah..." Until the MC finally made his catch. I finally started tuning into the story just in time to hear the captain (I too was turned off by her "description") spill the beans about her special passengers and their mission and I was all but yelling at the narrator OMIGOSH SHUT UP SHUT UP WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU WOMAN?! and it all turned into a terrible train wreck of stupid people doing stupid things...

The bad thing though is that, sadly, I can see it being plausible. A cautionary tale, if you will.

This is a tale of complete stupidity. There are no good characters in this story at all. If there was, I think it would have detracted from the story. It puts me in mind of all the slasher movies where you're yelling at the screen for the characters to NOT OPEN THE DAMN DOOR THE KILLER IS BEHIND IT CAN'T YOU SEE THE BLOOD STUPID?, but they do it anyway. I hate to say this, but I enjoyed it far more than I ought to.

[Listener]

The bad thing though is that, sadly, I can see it being plausible. A cautionary tale, if you will.

I get the feeling the author was trying to draw a parallel to the oil industry with the story, and fears that it will do something similar to what the chasers did in this story.

Bit of a heavy-handed point that detracted from a decent action piece, IMO.

[Unblinking]

The bad thing though is that, sadly, I can see it being plausible. A cautionary tale, if you will.

I get the feeling the author was trying to draw a parallel to the oil industry with the story, and fears that it will do something similar to what the chasers did in this story.

Bit of a heavy-handed point that detracted from a decent action piece, IMO.

I didn't get that impression at all.  So if it was heavy-handed, it was still too light for me to note.

[hardware]

I liked this one, it was a decent twist on the deep space travel problem which made for a fun set of conflicts and adventure. Like many here, I found the end a bit disappointing, not because of the stupidity or egoism of the people involved (yes, Wild takes the prize for mindnumbing shortsightedness, but hey, you don't need to be Einstein to drive a fuel truck, and fear of change is a strong force), but because once the captain started talking, it was so obvious where we were heading. And one thing I don't like is predictability.

Interesting discussion here, by the way. Unfortunately it seems that the author walked into some kind of uncanny valley in between hard and soft SF. If you throw in time travel and/or faster than light travel, no one will say anything, but once you start making things just a little more realistic, people will start looking for the cracks. And once you start using numbers with decimals - there is just no way you can win, specially when you deal with general relativity, which is one field of science where the average geek knows the basics. I have my fair share of physics training, and I can honestly say that those aspects didn't bother me at all.

Now, about the actions of the captain. I just assumed that she thought that this project was known to everyone, after all it was probably known on earth for many many years, and all her life was basically this project (I assume she was born on board), so I didn't find it strange that she didn't think twice about discussing it with some fuel truckers. A bit naive and arrogant, yeah, but not so unbelievable.

[childoftyranny]

This here is a case where the forum discussion was more interesting than the actual story. I think calling it a tragedy is very accurate, Wild killed himself, I can't really believe that not one other time did a fuel canister leak over many years. So he must have know what would happen. The people on the shop were essentially dead in the social sense depending on if it needed that fuel for anything internal, though it didn't sound like it did. And I think we say that the narrator was irreparably changed by this event. In many ways that's pretty interesting, as I don't think I know of many sci-fi stories that don't end with some hint of hope or a future. Someday that gate will still be built..and things will go bad then, so yea.

Ah science vs handwavium, the eternal battle.