Author Topic: moved from new members: Discussion of erotica and Speculative Fiction  (Read 4806 times)

lowky

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Also curious that two series, the 50 shades trilogy and the Sleeping Beauty trilogy that many dismiss as poorly written erotica, were both written by women.

I think the poor quality of writing in both those cases (and the Twilight series, for that matter) is pretty much an objective, grammatical/stylistic thing.  Some people can enjoy bad writing, fine, but there are basic levels of quality control not seen in any of those stories.  And believe me, just because we came up with 3 women writers as examples, women BY NO MEANS have a monopoly on bad writing.

Frankly, even de Sade is not someone I would use to defend the quality of anyone else's writing.  Or subject matter.  Sex can be done well, an argument could be made for Poppy Z. Brite for example, but...

Eh, I don't know where I'm going with this, and this isn't really the thread for it.

Which is why I am starting a new thread with it to discuss it.


lowky

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I left my opinion out of it previously.  I actually enjoy the Sleeping Beauty trilogy, but have heard some venomous discussions about it else where with it inducing a bile filed hatred in some people. 
I haven't read the 50 shades books, and don't know if I will or not.  was looking for some feed back to see if it was worth my time.

As for de Sade, it was just an example I thought most people would be familiar with, since his writings are treated as classical literature in most book stores, etc.

I do see erotica even if it's just mild almost inexorably linked with spec. fiction.  the fantasy paintings of Vallejo, Adventure stories like the Conan series, the fact Kirk couldn't land on a planet without hooking up with a beautiful woman, fairy tales like Sleeping Beauty, Snow White etc, where they were saved/awoken with a kiss from the handsome prince.  Poppy z Brite is a good example of horror and eroticism.  Vampire stories always get linked to sex, even if it's just a description of the fangs penetrating being a metaphor.

What are other's opinions on it?  Is it good, bad, would you prefer not to see it?  a favorite author who does it well. 

If done well it's not bad IMNSHO.  I enjoyed it in earlier books by Laurell K hamilton, but anymore it seems like that is what she is writing with it very loosely held together by a story.  If I just want to read sex scenes, there are magazines and places on the internet for that.  I personally read her books for the story first. 


Fenrix

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I think Her Collection of Intimacy handled it rather well. Final Girl Theory and Looker as well.

I loved all three of those stories, because they were awesome. The erotic portions fit the story, not the other way around. When the focus is on the prurient, the story tends to suffer.

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Umbrageofsnow

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Yeah, I'm with Fenrix on this, any time I've read erotic for erotic sake anything it is usually awful, not just in plot but in the writing and editing suffering because they aren't the point.  But when it makes sense in a story, particularly when it fits thematically/emotionally then it can help. 

Honestly, most of the authors people are going to bring up (Laura K. Hamilton for one) are authors I have a problem with from a writing craft point of view.  I don't like them because of how they write, and can't really get more than a few chapters into things.  And then some of the examples mentioned take it to another level.  I react to 50 Shades of Grey and Twilight like a vampire to holy water.  So no, I haven't read the whole things, but I've read a chapter or two and been absolutely floored that writing like that could get published.  And I've watched the first Twilight movie with RiffTrax so I know the plot more or less.  Um...Line?

In many cases, I think eroticism works better than actual sex.  Dracula would be a prime example of this.  Ramsey Campbell has a collection of erotic horror called Scared Stiff.  It isn't his best work, but it is interesting and pretty good.  But the biggest criticism you could make about it is that a lot of his actual sex scenes are... not good.  In that collection I think it works okay because none of them are meant to actually be erotic, so the lack of it isn't as off-putting, they are meant to be off-putting.  But in some of his novels, oh Yig, the man cannot write sex scenes.

Clive Barker can go either way for a lot of people, I'm not really a fan of the sex in his writing, but he does the erotic lead-up well, and this often contributes to the horror.  Poppy Z. Brite is an excellent writer who does a good job with the sex scenes.



lowky

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Yeah, I'm with Fenrix on this, any time I've read erotic for erotic sake anything it is usually awful, not just in plot but in the writing and editing suffering because they aren't the point.  But when it makes sense in a story, particularly when it fits thematically/emotionally then it can help. 

Honestly, most of the authors people are going to bring up (Laura K. Hamilton for one) are authors I have a problem with from a writing craft point of view.  I don't like them because of how they write, and can't really get more than a few chapters into things.  And then some of the examples mentioned take it to another level.  I react to 50 Shades of Grey and Twilight like a vampire to holy water.  So no, I haven't read the whole things, but I've read a chapter or two and been absolutely floored that writing like that could get published.  And I've watched the first Twilight movie with RiffTrax so I know the plot more or less.  Um...Line?


I read the twilight stories and enjoyed them, they are not as good as Harry Potter but they aren't awful.  After watching the first twilight movie because my now ex fiance wanted to watch it, I have not nor have any desire to see any of the others.  Ugh.

I didn't mind the first few Laurell K Hamilton books, any more not so much.  I will probably still read new books, but there is a much better chance that they will come from the library and not be purchased by myself. 
I know people who also react with the same vehemence to John Norman books.  I like the action in them, but much of the BDSM in them reads more like an exorcise in Misogyny more so than true BDSM.  The whole they don't feel like a woman and wouldn't be a feminist, until after the "hero" uses them as an object for his lust instead of as a consenting individual.


justenjoying

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My favorite stuff has been from the series Herotica http://www.librarything.com/series/Herotica. Some of it can be really hit or miss, but the stuff that is good, is really really good. I find I like the stories that leave the actual intercourse to your imagination and are all build up and cool off. I also find they get more of the emotions and feelings around sex right, but this is spoken from a women about women's writing. So I'll step off my soap box and just tell you to check them out.



flintknapper

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I just noticed this thread. While I am not an erotica enthusiast, but I would say the best podcasts out there for erotic literature are Nobilis Reed, Remittance Girl, and Kiss Me Quick. Stories by these authors can be based in reality or in fantasy/scifi realms. However, most are set in todays world. So you have to sort through them pretty extensively to find the genre related stories.