EP397: A Gun for Dinosaur

[Unblinking]

I asked Ayoub to play it how he felt comfortable. Unfortunately, my American ear doesn't discern English accents well enough to know between all of them,

Isn't that sad? Brits are familiar with so many nuances of US dialect and speech patterns because of the wealth of films and TV we receive. But you miss out on our Brummies, Geordies, Scousers, Estuaries, Scots, Welsh, Irish (northern, Eire, Dublin, Belfast), Sussex (they have 'chickings' and 'kitchings') and West country drawlers, and Cumbrian yollerers and farm yakkers. Probably you get the Eastenders though

Not so sad. We have dialects in every state that you've never heard. My home state of Pennsylvania has four or five that I know of and probably a couple that I don't. I'll read for you sometimes in Pittsburghese, then we can watch the hate comments roll in by the millions!

True, true.  And movies can sometimes just make the perceived accents even further off.  The movie Fargo, for instance, despite the title does not occur in Fargo, North Dakota, but mostly in Minnesota.  Several of the characters in the movie talk with what many people think of as a Minnesota accent, although I've never met anyone who talked like that--really it's a very exaggerated version of some Canadian accent.  There are some similarities, mostly in the flatness of certain vowels, but they're not the same accent.  And that goes without localized wordage:  the word "spendy" for expensive, "hot dish" for casserole, "pop" for soda.

[matweller]

Not so sad. We have dialects in every state that you've never heard. My home state of Pennsylvania has four or five that I know of and probably a couple that I don't. I'll read for you sometimes in Pittsburghese, then we can watch the hate comments roll in by the millions!

Yeah, we CAN hear the difference between, say, a Geordie accent and a Sussex one. But would we know which was which? Probably not. Just like I can hear the difference when my Chinese friend says a word in Mandarin with different intonations on each syllable. I can HEAR it, but could I reproduce it? No.

It's okay, kid, I wasn't speaking for you. You're right, even if I did hear and distinguish I wouldn't know how to attribute, but there are also subtleties that you only catch if you're immersed long enough. West coast folks can't often discern between Philly, NYC and NJ accents. Upstate NY and Minnesotan are similar enough to mistake for each other. Outsiders consider Georgian and Texan to both be "Southern" but they are worlds apart.

True, true.  And movies can sometimes just make the perceived accents even further off.  The movie Fargo, for instance, despite the title does not occur in Fargo, North Dakota, but mostly in Minnesota.  Several of the characters in the movie talk with what many people think of as a Minnesota accent, although I've never met anyone who talked like that--really it's a very exaggerated version of some Canadian accent.  There are some similarities, mostly in the flatness of certain vowels, but they're not the same accent.  And that goes without localized wordage:  the word "spendy" for expensive, "hot dish" for casserole, "pop" for soda.

My folks have been in southern MN for about a decade and I was amazed at how accurate Fargo was for the accent that I hear in every single voice when I go to visit. It's a very difficult accent to mimic, but when I go into their little town, all I hear is Howie Mandell doing Bobby's mother from ever female in the place.

[Kaa]

Yeah, we CAN hear the difference between, say, a Geordie accent and a Sussex one. But would we know which was which? Probably not. Just like I can hear the difference when my Chinese friend says a word in Mandarin with different intonations on each syllable. I can HEAR it, but could I reproduce it? No.

It's okay, kid, I wasn't speaking for you.

That clearly came across differently than intended. I was agreeing, not arguing. I'm from Alabama. There are many, MANY accents in the state, but the rest of the world just hears 'Southern.' Jim Nabors vs. Jimmy Wales, for instance.

[ancawonka]

I extended my errand-driving so that I could listen to the end of this story - I didn't want to stop.  I thought it was a fun adventure story with an old-school feel to it.  I didn't realize till later that it was, in fact, written in the olden days of the mid-20th century.

As for the narration, I liked it.  I didn't think the narrator was supposed to be British, but Indian.  Having worked with lots of people from India, I've heard a lot of accents mixed with American or British English.  Close enough for me to evoke a feeling of exoticism.  And another reason for the lack of respect shown to him by the rich tourists.

Anyway, please run more of these classic stories again.  I really enjoy them. 

[PrimerofinTheSequel]

enjoyed this,  nice throw-back story

[Dem]

I asked Ayoub to play it how he felt comfortable. Unfortunately, my American ear doesn't discern English accents well enough to know between all of them,

Isn't that sad? Brits are familiar with so many nuances of US dialect and speech patterns because of the wealth of films and TV we receive. But you miss out on our Brummies, Geordies, Scousers, Estuaries, Scots, Welsh, Irish (northern, Eire, Dublin, Belfast), Sussex (they have 'chickings' and 'kitchings') and West country drawlers, and Cumbrian yollerers and farm yakkers. Probably you get the Eastenders though

Not so sad. We have dialects in every state that you've never heard. My home state of Pennsylvania has four or five that I know of and probably a couple that I don't. I'll read for you sometimes in Pittsburghese, then we can watch the hate comments roll in by the millions!

Yes please!

[Dem]

We have dialects in every state that you've never heard. My home state of Pennsylvania has four or five that I know of and probably a couple that I don't.

It occurs to me that we have countries smaller than many of your states, so I shouldn't be surprised!

[Unblinking]

My folks have been in southern MN for about a decade and I was amazed at how accurate Fargo was for the accent that I hear in every single voice when I go to visit. It's a very difficult accent to mimic, but when I go into their little town, all I hear is Howie Mandell doing Bobby's mother from ever female in the place.

No kidding?  What town specifically?  Maybe it's a very localized thing?  Because I've seriously never met anyone whose accent made Fargo accents anything less than caricature.

[adrianh]

Nice to hear an old classic. Not one of my favourites from that author - but mildly fun. I couldn't quite get into the narration though - for some of the reasons previously mentioned (to my UK ear the accent wasn't quite right, and the pacing at the start was a bit slow.)

However - the biggest problem for me was the shift to the UK - as pointed out by A. in the outro.

When I read the stories (and for those who don't know there are more adventures of Reginald Rivers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Time) I just assumed that the hunters were americans. It was an american author after all. So the character that sat in my head was a kind of cross between Bunny Allen /  Hemingway / Theodore Roosevelt.

Hearing it read in a vaguely-upper-class-buffer accent was jarring for me.

[matweller]

Nice to hear an old classic. Not one of my favourites from that author - but mildly fun. I couldn't quite get into the narration though - for some of the reasons previously mentioned (to my UK ear the accent wasn't quite right, and the pacing at the start was a bit slow.)

However - the biggest problem for me was the shift to the UK - as pointed out by A. in the outro.

When I read the stories (and for those who don't know there are more adventures of Reginald Rivers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Time) I just assumed that the hunters were americans. It was an american author after all. So the character that sat in my head was a kind of cross between Bunny Allen /  Hemingway / Theodore Roosevelt.

Hearing it read in a vaguely-upper-class-buffer accent was jarring for me.

The text is definitely meant to sound British. Americans don't:

• talk about weight in stone
• use the phrase 'knocked base over apex"
• punctuate a sentence with the word 'what', although Pittsburghers do say "en 'at" ("and that") and folks in eastern PA often finish with "then" or [*shiver*] "aint" which I think is a variation on "innit" ("isn't it") that you hear in New England and other Eastern locales.
• I don't know if "sahib" was ever a common term over there, but it reeks of English colonialism. We'd be much more inclined to say "suckers" or "clients"

I was actually considering choosing a narrator of any country and just ignoring the obvious linguistic cues, but it seemed truer to the intent to do it this way in the end.

[Unblinking]

Nice to hear an old classic. Not one of my favourites from that author - but mildly fun. I couldn't quite get into the narration though - for some of the reasons previously mentioned (to my UK ear the accent wasn't quite right, and the pacing at the start was a bit slow.)

However - the biggest problem for me was the shift to the UK - as pointed out by A. in the outro.

When I read the stories (and for those who don't know there are more adventures of Reginald Rivers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Time) I just assumed that the hunters were americans. It was an american author after all. So the character that sat in my head was a kind of cross between Bunny Allen /  Hemingway / Theodore Roosevelt.

Hearing it read in a vaguely-upper-class-buffer accent was jarring for me.

The text is definitely meant to sound British. Americans don't:

• talk about weight in stone
• use the phrase 'knocked base over apex"
• punctuate a sentence with the word 'what', although Pittsburghers do say "en 'at" ("and that") and folks in eastern PA often finish with "then" or [*shiver*] "aint" which I think is a variation on "innit" ("isn't it") that you hear in New England and other Eastern locales.
• I don't know if "sahib" was ever a common term over there, but it reeks of English colonialism. We'd be much more inclined to say "suckers" or "clients"

I was actually considering choosing a narrator of any country and just ignoring the obvious linguistic cues, but it seemed truer to the intent to do it this way in the end.

Agreed, definitely had hints of British dialect.  The "what" sentence punctuation was the biggest flag for me.

[Dem]

Nice to hear an old classic. Not one of my favourites from that author - but mildly fun. I couldn't quite get into the narration though - for some of the reasons previously mentioned (to my UK ear the accent wasn't quite right, and the pacing at the start was a bit slow.)

However - the biggest problem for me was the shift to the UK - as pointed out by A. in the outro.

When I read the stories (and for those who don't know there are more adventures of Reginald Rivers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Time) I just assumed that the hunters were americans. It was an american author after all. So the character that sat in my head was a kind of cross between Bunny Allen /  Hemingway / Theodore Roosevelt.

Hearing it read in a vaguely-upper-class-buffer accent was jarring for me.

The text is definitely meant to sound British. Americans don't:

• talk about weight in stone
• use the phrase 'knocked base over apex"
• punctuate a sentence with the word 'what', although Pittsburghers do say "en 'at" ("and that") and folks in eastern PA often finish with "then" or [*shiver*] "aint" which I think is a variation on "innit" ("isn't it") that you hear in New England and other Eastern locales.
• I don't know if "sahib" was ever a common term over there, but it reeks of English colonialism. We'd be much more inclined to say "suckers" or "clients"

I was actually considering choosing a narrator of any country and just ignoring the obvious linguistic cues, but it seemed truer to the intent to do it this way in the end.

'Sahib' was used commonly by old military types who often also referred to their wives as 'the Memsahib'. I'm guessing no one under 80 does that now, unless they're stuck in a nostalgia loop!

[Max e^{i pi}]

I'm guessing no one under 80 does that now, unless they're stuck in a nostalgia loop!

That sounds like one of those things on Star Trek that can only be escaped from by either:
a) Punching someone very dramatically or wooing her (also dramatically).
b) Having a nice cup of tea while your android and his blind friend to do something with flashy lights (or maybe someone whose species has anger management issues does something violent).
or
c) Bark at people when your coffee gets cold. (Unless it's season four and up and then the hot Borg in the skintight uniform does b).

[adrianh]

The text is definitely meant to sound British

Oh yes - you're absolutely right.

The point I was (badly) making was that I originally read it as a kid in the 1970s. It fixed itself in my head as being american at that point - the linguistic cues not being as obvious to one of tender years ;-)

It's just one of those odd cases where a voice or actor sounds "wrong" because of how you originally imprinted on a book.

(To pick another weird example - I was convinced for years that the central character in The Forever War was a woman - which stopped me finding the book again for ages.)

[adrianh]

Ohhhh - it turns out that there was a version that was translated into kg too

"De Camp revised the story slightly for its inclusion in Rivers of Time to update obsolete paleontological terms and dated references.[8] In one instance the result was unfortunate; in the original version of the story, Rivers estimates Seligman's weight in both pounds and stone;[9] in the revised version both measures are rendered as kilograms, resulting in Rivers appearing to make the same calculation twice.[10]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Gun_for_Dinosaur#Revision_and_continuations

[Fenrix]

My inner twelve-year-old loved the heck out of this. After years of books on dinosaurs, this would be the next obvious step for that kid. I wish twelve-year-old me had actually found this book. Adult me is glad to have finally found it also thought it quite enjoyable.

I've been bothered by overlong stories, but this one didn't do that for me. The length was padded by lush descriptions of the time period. It's amusing that some folks are annoyed at the science portion of their science fiction story. Some of the science has likely been updated since this was written, but while I was listening nothing jumped out to me as being wrong.

And doesn't this show how far the genre has come in the years? Not just the sexist stuff but the story itself was by modern standards a bit blah. Sentient time could have been so much more FUN.

This story wasn't fun? You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means. I'm not sure how a big game expedition for dinosaurs can be anything but fun.

[JDoug]

I really liked this story, including the accent

[Jec]

I liked this one. Not a new idea, but the characters had that, I know someone like that, quality. 

[Devoted135]

I appreciate hearing classic stories from time to time, especially since my exposure to such tales has been woefully lacking. This one put me firmly in mind of British imperialism in India, big game hunting in Africa, and Theodore Roosevelt.

I could definitely have done without the framing story. I mean, who brings a potential client to a bar in order to explain why they won't actually be your client? Despite this, it was a fun romp, though I must admit some disappointment in the fairly anti-climactic reveal of the "title line".

[Devoted135]

I asked Ayoub to play it how he felt comfortable. Unfortunately, my American ear doesn't discern English accents well enough to know between all of them,

Isn't that sad? Brits are familiar with so many nuances of US dialect and speech patterns because of the wealth of films and TV we receive. But you miss out on our Brummies, Geordies, Scousers, Estuaries, Scots, Welsh, Irish (northern, Eire, Dublin, Belfast), Sussex (they have 'chickings' and 'kitchings') and West country drawlers, and Cumbrian yollerers and farm yakkers. Probably you get the Eastenders though

Not so sad. We have dialects in every state that you've never heard. My home state of Pennsylvania has four or five that I know of and probably a couple that I don't. I'll read for you sometimes in Pittsburghese, then we can watch the hate comments roll in by the millions!

I'd love to hear that. I have a distinct memory of riding in a hotel shuttle from the airport in Philly and being shocked that I couldn't understand A. SINGLE. WORD. of what the driver was saying over the walkie talkie.


I moved from Chicago to North Carolina (hi Scattercat!) seven years ago and it was a long time before I could understand people who are from the mountains. Contrast that with the heavy, yet still easily understandable eastern NC accent, and the almost non-accent of many people who grew up in Raleigh or Charlotte.

[SonofSpermcube]

I appreciate hearing classic stories from time to time, especially since my exposure to such tales has been woefully lacking. This one put me firmly in mind of British imperialism in India, big game hunting in Africa, and Theodore Roosevelt.

I could definitely have done without the framing story. I mean, who brings a potential client to a bar in order to explain why they won't actually be your client? Despite this, it was a fun romp, though I must admit some disappointment in the fairly anti-climactic reveal of the "title line".

It wasn't why they won't be your client, but why they won't be going to that particular time period.  And the narrator was clearly interested in how he'd get on with his clients in informal situations.  It wasn't a "here's your money now rotate my tires" situation.

[matweller]

I asked Ayoub to play it how he felt comfortable. Unfortunately, my American ear doesn't discern English accents well enough to know between all of them,

Isn't that sad? Brits are familiar with so many nuances of US dialect and speech patterns because of the wealth of films and TV we receive. But you miss out on our Brummies, Geordies, Scousers, Estuaries, Scots, Welsh, Irish (northern, Eire, Dublin, Belfast), Sussex (they have 'chickings' and 'kitchings') and West country drawlers, and Cumbrian yollerers and farm yakkers. Probably you get the Eastenders though

Not so sad. We have dialects in every state that you've never heard. My home state of Pennsylvania has four or five that I know of and probably a couple that I don't. I'll read for you sometimes in Pittsburghese, then we can watch the hate comments roll in by the millions!

I'd love to hear that. I have a distinct memory of riding in a hotel shuttle from the airport in Philly and being shocked that I couldn't understand A. SINGLE. WORD. of what the driver was saying over the walkie talkie.


I moved from Chicago to North Carolina (hi Scattercat!) seven years ago and it was a long time before I could understand people who are from the mountains. Contrast that with the heavy, yet still easily understandable eastern NC accent, and the almost non-accent of many people who grew up in Raleigh or Charlotte.

Philly accent is VERY different from Pittsburgh, plus Pittsburghese repurposes a lot of words (like 'jumbo' means 'bologna') and makes new ones (like 'nebby' means 'nosey').

This would be an interesting experiment, though... If we had a story -- preferably a very short, 1st-person piece -- and gave it to narrators to translate into their dialect and record, then we could put them together and put it in the feed as a bonus track. That might be very interesting. Or maybe do a month where we run the regular stories, then at the end of each episode, tack on a version done in regional dialect. Or just do a thread in the forum inviting people to submit a recording of their favorite part of that week's story read in their regional dialect and recorded on their phone or something. Then, if enough of those are interesting, maybe assemble them into an episode or something.

Hmm -- interesting possibilities.

[Sgarre1]

This would be an interesting experiment, though... If we had a story -- preferably a very short, 1st-person piece -- and gave it to narrators to translate into their dialect and record, then we could put them together and put it in the feed as a bonus track. That might be very interesting. Or maybe do a month where we run the regular stories, then at the end of each episode, tack on a version done in regional dialect. Or just do a thread in the forum inviting people to submit a recording of their favorite part of that week's story read in their regional dialect and recorded on their phone or something. Then, if enough of those are interesting, maybe assemble them into an episode or something.

I always make it a point to sample the alternate language extras on THE SIMPSONS dvds just to hear how foreign voice actors approach the character voices - the French-Canadian Marge was really good!

[Devoted135]

I appreciate hearing classic stories from time to time, especially since my exposure to such tales has been woefully lacking. This one put me firmly in mind of British imperialism in India, big game hunting in Africa, and Theodore Roosevelt.

I could definitely have done without the framing story. I mean, who brings a potential client to a bar in order to explain why they won't actually be your client? Despite this, it was a fun romp, though I must admit some disappointment in the fairly anti-climactic reveal of the "title line".

It wasn't why they won't be your client, but why they won't be going to that particular time period.  And the narrator was clearly interested in how he'd get on with his clients in informal situations.  It wasn't a "here's your money now rotate my tires" situation.

Oh, you're totally right! That'll teach me to wait a couple weeks before commenting.

[l33tminion]

I thought this one was great.  I often find this style of story-telling a bit slow, and the story was long.  It's also very structured (the story within a story, the title-drop right at the end).  But I was never bored with this one, and I enjoyed the reading a lot.