EP422: Deshaun Stevens’ Ship Log

[matweller]

I hate this because it's the verbal cousin of a mental process that a lot of people have whereby they have a conversation in their own heads and then bring you into it in the middle and proceed to hold it against you when you can't add intentionally to their conversation because you have no point of reference, a cousin of the no-point-of-reference Facebook post. It's rude, it's unfair, it's dripping with egotistical goo and it shows a general disrespect for interpersonal communication.

Specifically in the case of "because, X" it's cutesy shorthand text talk that is either meant to convey a logical conclusion or an irony that there is no logical conclusion. It's fun in text and can even be very funny when used well [though it does get overused by lameoids], but it's one of those things that if used verbally in my presence in a way that was anything less than gut-grabbing hysterical [see also, speaking "L-O-L"], it would take every once of good grace in my body to not want knock that person over and stand on their throat. Because, the good of all humankind.

[Varda]

Hell hath no fury like a Mat Weller's scorn. 

[PotatoKnight]

Oh, man I love "because X." It's one of those great linguistic evolutions that starts as a joke and then just enters your everyday speech, because it sneaks in so much meaning in such succinct way.

"I'm not going to make it this Thursday, 'cause jobs" said in the right tone of voice conveys so much more than, say "because I have to work."

I guess I kind of get the attitude of people who love language and resist change--I mean you worked hard to learn it the way it was and obviously were drawn to something about its conservative form. But for me the variety and change in writing and speech is precisely what I love about language.

Language is life, not architecture. The fact that you can say stuff that breaks the rules--including real grammatical rules, not just made up language maven rules--but that still is meaningful to the audience and that picks up more meaning or creativity than a straightforward way of conveying the same thing. It's a manifestation of the power of the human mind, and it makes me smile.

[Cutter McKay]

[see also, speaking "L-O-L"]

Oh man, this drives me crazy. I think I mentioned this in another thread recently, but I have a friend who would regularly say, "OMW". And I would say, "You do realize that saying that actually takes longer that just saying 'On My Way', right? You're adding two extra syllables for W. So your text shorthand in reality is wasting more time."

I honestly believe, given another thousand years, mankind will be speaking entirely in abbreviations.

[Fenrix]

I know a lot of pedants, and becuase of this there is a small subset of the social group who literally troll via improper idioms. It's a glorious thing to watch. Because irony.

For those interested: http://grammarist.com/usage/normalcy-normality/

Take that all you people who say President Harding didn't affect change!

[Just Jeff]

Cool. An elementary school flashback. I'm surprised how quickly I recognized it. I recall thinking even back then it was a little odd, but I liked. Now I think it's even odder, but I still like it.

[Dem]

Oh, man I love "because X." It's one of those great linguistic evolutions that starts as a joke and then just enters your everyday speech, because it sneaks in so much meaning in such succinct way.

"I'm not going to make it this Thursday, 'cause jobs" said in the right tone of voice conveys so much more than, say "because I have to work."

I guess I kind of get the attitude of people who love language and resist change--I mean you worked hard to learn it the way it was and obviously were drawn to something about its conservative form. But for me the variety and change in writing and speech is precisely what I love about language.

Language is life, not architecture. The fact that you can say stuff that breaks the rules--including real grammatical rules, not just made up language maven rules--but that still is meaningful to the audience and that picks up more meaning or creativity than a straightforward way of conveying the same thing. It's a manifestation of the power of the human mind, and it makes me smile.

So very well put

[Unblinking]

nauseated vs. nauseous.  Okay, granted, I didn't used them right until I started writing, but now it's so deeply ingrained that it irritates me when anyone uses it wrong.  It took me a while to remember how to use this one, but I remember it to being similar to "poisoned" vs. "poisonous".  The former means that you are being affected by poison (or nausea), the latter means that you are affecting others with poison (or nausea).  So if you say you're nauseous, you're actually making other people feel ill.

I did enough presence of mind that, when Heather was experiencing nearly constant nausea during the first half of her pregnancy, and would tell me she was nauseous, that I did not even once correct her.  Because one of the the last things one wants to hear from one's husband when nauseated is a grammar correction.

[matweller]

Because one of the the last things one wants to hear from one's husband [ever] is a grammar correction.

[Max e^{i pi}]

Because one of the the last things one wants to hear from one's husband [ever] is a grammar correction.

And here I am catching up on the forum, sitting next to my wife, and helping her make slides for when she presents her research results.
Mostly my contributions consist of "Wow, got to hand it to Word that it was able to guess what you were trying to spell" and grammar corrections.

[Unblinking]

Because one of the the last things one wants to hear from one's husband [ever] is a grammar correction.

Haha, touche.  I do actually refrain from correcting anyone's grammar unless they have asked me to proofread--people don't want to hear that in general as long as they can be understood (though of course I'll have to think about that kind of thing as Ian learns to talk).  I only meant that all-day morning sickness is an even worse time for such corrections.

Usually the only time I'll point out to Heather is when she's using a word that isn't a word at all.  She is rather fond of using "paranoy" as a word.  As in "It paranoys me when the gas stove takes too long to light."  I think the idea is that if something annoys you, you are annoyed.  If something paranoys you, you are paranoid.  I partly point that out because I think it's cute and endearing and kind of makes sense, and also because she might want to know that other people may have no idea what she's trying to say if she uses that.

[PotatoKnight]

She is rather fond of using "paranoy" as a word.  As in "It paranoys me when the gas stove takes too long to light."  I think the idea is that if something annoys you, you are annoyed.  If something paranoys you, you are paranoid.

When I talk about loving linguistic innovations and changes, this is what I mean. Not that I disrespect the crucial relationship task of giving one another guff.

[Unblinking]

She is rather fond of using "paranoy" as a word.  As in "It paranoys me when the gas stove takes too long to light."  I think the idea is that if something annoys you, you are annoyed.  If something paranoys you, you are paranoid.

When I talk about loving linguistic innovations and changes, this is what I mean. Not that I disrespect the crucial relationship task of giving one another guff.

Come to think of it, I haven't heard her use the word for a while.  Hopefully I didn't stifle the usage, because I do rather like it.  We just need to settle on a spelling, not sure if it should be paranoy or parannoy.

[Dem]

'Parannoy' suggests a feeling slightly to one side of annoyance, whereas 'paranoy' seems to indicate more of a worry. I do wonder if, being 'parannoyed' would be a state of potential aggression towards iffy thoughts. I quite like that notion!

[Scattercat]

Wow, Mat.  I just read this thread and you should not ever speak directly to me in person, as I am prone to using all kinds of silly Internet-speak in my normal speech.  My wife and I are both English majors and greatly enjoy weirding language whenever we can.  ;-)

[InfiniteMonkey]

- "For all intensive purposes..." (instead of "For all intents and purposes")

One of my favorite silly jokes from an old sitcom is when a character hears that as "For all those in tents, and porpoises".

[Unblinking]

I was greatly amused to hear "paranoy" in the feedback about this episode, and so was Heather. 

[matweller]

Wow, Mat.  I just read this thread and you should not ever speak directly to me in person, as I am prone to using all kinds of silly Internet-speak in my normal speech.  My wife and I are both English majors and greatly enjoy weirding language whenever we can.  ;-)

For the record, there's a distinct difference between hearing a friend who knows better play with language informally and hearing some ignorant ninny on TV or the net abuse the language because they assume that English was invented a month before they were born and LOL was part of it.

On my former show, we had a related discussion about profanity because I used it freely but I said I never spoke that way around my kids and that I tried not to even use too much slang around them unless it was obviously part of some joke. My co-hosts asked if I didn't think that was a little hypocritical or disingenuous and I said "Not at all. Time and place have significant bearing on language and the expected rules surrounding it. Here [on the show], cursing is okay, it's part of my expected personae for this show and frankly it's a great release for me. In front of my kids, it's none of those things. More importantly, though, I want my kids to know the right way to talk first. If you know the right way, you can choose to use the wrong way when it's situationally appropriate or for emphasis or comedic effect. If you don't know the right way, then you're always just locked into being ignorant."

[Dem]

Wow, Mat.  I just read this thread and you should not ever speak directly to me in person, as I am prone to using all kinds of silly Internet-speak in my normal speech.  My wife and I are both English majors and greatly enjoy weirding language whenever we can.  ;-)

For the record, there's a distinct difference between hearing a friend who knows better play with language informally and hearing some ignorant ninny on TV or the net abuse the language because they assume that English was invented a month before they were born and LOL was part of it.

On my former show, we had a related discussion about profanity because I used it freely but I said I never spoke that way around my kids and that I tried not to even use too much slang around them unless it was obviously part of some joke. My co-hosts asked if I didn't think that was a little hypocritical or disingenuous and I said "Not at all. Time and place have significant bearing on language and the expected rules surrounding it. Here [on the show], cursing is okay, it's part of my expected personae for this show and frankly it's a great release for me. In front of my kids, it's none of those things. More importantly, though, I want my kids to know the right way to talk first. If you know the right way, you can choose to use the wrong way when it's situationally appropriate or for emphasis or comedic effect. If you don't know the right way, then you're always just locked into being ignorant."

That is so YES, Matt. Choice is what it's about; being able to use the language that works best in a given context and to have sufficient resources to leave limiting fillers on the shelf.

[Windup]

Wow, Mat.  I just read this thread and you should not ever speak directly to me in person, as I am prone to using all kinds of silly Internet-speak in my normal speech.  My wife and I are both English majors and greatly enjoy weirding language whenever we can.  ;-)

For the record, there's a distinct difference between hearing a friend who knows better play with language informally and hearing some ignorant ninny on TV or the net abuse the language because they assume that English was invented a month before they were born and LOL was part of it.

On my former show, we had a related discussion about profanity because I used it freely but I said I never spoke that way around my kids and that I tried not to even use too much slang around them unless it was obviously part of some joke. My co-hosts asked if I didn't think that was a little hypocritical or disingenuous and I said "Not at all. Time and place have significant bearing on language and the expected rules surrounding it. Here [on the show], cursing is okay, it's part of my expected personae for this show and frankly it's a great release for me. In front of my kids, it's none of those things. More importantly, though, I want my kids to know the right way to talk first. If you know the right way, you can choose to use the wrong way when it's situationally appropriate or for emphasis or comedic effect. If you don't know the right way, then you're always just locked into being ignorant."

Matt, I think you nailed it.

[Unblinking]

Wow, Mat.  I just read this thread and you should not ever speak directly to me in person, as I am prone to using all kinds of silly Internet-speak in my normal speech.  My wife and I are both English majors and greatly enjoy weirding language whenever we can.  ;-)

For the record, there's a distinct difference between hearing a friend who knows better play with language informally and hearing some ignorant ninny on TV or the net abuse the language because they assume that English was invented a month before they were born and LOL was part of it.

On my former show, we had a related discussion about profanity because I used it freely but I said I never spoke that way around my kids and that I tried not to even use too much slang around them unless it was obviously part of some joke. My co-hosts asked if I didn't think that was a little hypocritical or disingenuous and I said "Not at all. Time and place have significant bearing on language and the expected rules surrounding it. Here [on the show], cursing is okay, it's part of my expected personae for this show and frankly it's a great release for me. In front of my kids, it's none of those things. More importantly, though, I want my kids to know the right way to talk first. If you know the right way, you can choose to use the wrong way when it's situationally appropriate or for emphasis or comedic effect. If you don't know the right way, then you're always just locked into being ignorant."

I like it.

On a semi-tangential topic about swearing, and who you swear in front of:
My dad's a pastor.  I think his attitude toward a lot of things are interesting.  One of those things I find interesting is his attitude toward swearing.  He's not really bothered by cursing in conversation... if it's part of that person's accustomed mode of speech.  He figures that's how they talk, so that's how they talk.  But he has run across a few people who swear in front of him to try to get a rise out of the pastor, and that gets on his nerves, not because of the swear words, but because of their intent to annoy rather than to just communicate.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting.

[ArbysMom]

I have a pet peeve about using "just kidding" instead of "oops" or "I made a mistake". My daughter (25) used to use it all the time, and many of her friends still do. To me, it's as if they don't want to admit to making a mistake, so they pretend  that they were kidding instead. "Just kidding" means you were joking around, intentionally. If you make a mistake, "oops" or "my bad" is appropriate.

YMMV

[matweller]

Interesting info about the story on the author's blog: http://reasie.livejournal.com/663241.html

[CryptoMe]

I enjoyed the story. It was silly, irreverent, and fun!
The diary speak was spot on, in my opinion.

[Gamercow]

Two linguistic mix ups along the lines of "intensive purposes":

"put them on a pedal stool" instead of "put them on a pedestal"
"damp squid" instead of "damp squib"

Both from the most hilarious show, IT Crowd.