Author Topic: EP462: Women of Our Occupation  (Read 14514 times)

Devoted135

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Reply #25 on: October 03, 2014, 03:15:07 AM
I got tripped up by the title too! Both "our" and "occupation" had to get re-parsed in my head. :P

This was pretty difficult to listen to, as I'm sure it was meant to be. I was left wondering how society had gotten here, but certainly the story stands on its own without that backstory. One of the most interesting parts for me was how the Women clearly hated men, but did not necessarily love every woman either. Sure, they were willing for women in the occupied area to join them, but being female only earned a few allowances (not being seized and beaten), rather than actually nice treatment. Clearly whatever drove this occupation was not purely a question of gender.



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Reply #26 on: October 03, 2014, 03:41:35 PM
I got tripped up by the title too! Both "our" and "occupation" had to get re-parsed in my head. :P

This was pretty difficult to listen to, as I'm sure it was meant to be. I was left wondering how society had gotten here, but certainly the story stands on its own without that backstory. One of the most interesting parts for me was how the Women clearly hated men, but did not necessarily love every woman either. Sure, they were willing for women in the occupied area to join them, but being female only earned a few allowances (not being seized and beaten), rather than actually nice treatment. Clearly whatever drove this occupation was not purely a question of gender.

That makes sense as a reversal.  A misogynist man doesn't necessarily have an abiding love for all men--it's just that he systematically acts against women, might act against men on a case by case basis.



matweller

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Reply #27 on: October 13, 2014, 12:38:18 PM



UnfulredJohnson

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Reply #28 on: October 14, 2014, 09:14:43 PM
This was great. I had admit I was a little apprehensive as I did not really engage with the 'we have always fought' one. But this was right up street. Dark and gritty and full on. The bit that struck me the most was the disintegration of the father when he returns from interrogation, that was so well done. The silence the staring, the opium and the eventual suicide. Really really harrowing stuff and just all round amazing writing. You just know they castrated that poor bastard. It was brutal.

I didn't really consider it a 'flip' story though. Normally in those stories you have the men doing all the washing up and the women off inventing stuff and smoking cigars. But this struck me as a much more believable scenario for some reason, maybe because the setting is just that little bit more realistic. But it didn't strike me as fantastical or gimmicky at all that the invaders were women. I'm not entirely sure why not, but I had no problem accepting that bit.  If there was a moral or a message here, I guess it could be that women are just as capable of evil as men are. Dark. Grity. Great.



InfiniteMonkey

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Reply #29 on: October 14, 2014, 10:05:59 PM
and the women off inventing stuff and smoking cigars.

Because, really, that's all men are good for  ;)



matweller

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Reply #30 on: October 15, 2014, 02:07:11 AM
and the women off inventing stuff and smoking cigars.

Because, really, that's all men are good for  ;)
Wait...I also drink whiskey. And fart.



Listener

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Reply #31 on: October 15, 2014, 12:35:08 PM
and the women off inventing stuff and smoking cigars.

Because, really, that's all men are good for  ;)
Wait...I also drink whiskey. And fart.

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hardware

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Reply #32 on: October 28, 2014, 12:20:39 PM
This was definitely more interesting as a world than as a story, the mix of reversals and not-reversals of power structures (mainly the reversed male female power structure vs the classical oppressive invasion force) were pretty provocative, but I'm not sure if the double punch really led to a double impact, or rather muddled both the points in a way that eventually weakened them. 



velocity

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Reply #33 on: December 16, 2014, 12:32:05 PM
A brutal tale of an occupying force.  The memorable character here is the mother that works to survive and take care of her children in the face of brutality.  she is a "dragon", but in a quiet, unarmed way.  I listened to this and thought there must be many women and men that do the same when invaders come to town.  the fact that the invaders happened to be women didn't make an impression on me. 



El Barto

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Reply #34 on: December 29, 2014, 05:40:24 PM
Wow - I just listened to this episode and was shocked by Nathan's obnoxious and counterproductive commentary after the story. 

I have not listened to episode 458 but when I heard the management of Escape Pod telling their listeners/supporters to F*## OFF I went to see what was said in the forum that triggered Nathan to publicly insult his listeners as simpletons who can’t appreciate "anything without a ray gun."

Unless it was deleted, I didn't see any posted comments that remotely merit such rude, dickish, and counterproductive on-air behavior. 

Escape Pod should be thrilled to have listeners who are engaged enough to come to the forums and express opinions. 

Nathan obviously loved the story -- he called the criticism of it "inexplicable." He was also baffled at why anyone else would feel strongly enough about it to create a new account just to register their opinion.  But him loving the story doesn't make it so objectively great that it it can't be criticized -- including complaints about it apparently being more of a fantasy story than science fiction -- something that obviously bothers quite a few listeners on more than one occasion.

As a result of this rant, Escape Pod should probably expect to see more listeners create throwaway accounts to express their opinions.  After all, who wants to be bullied or insulted publicly for sharing their negative opinion about stories?




Fenrix

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Reply #35 on: December 29, 2014, 07:35:03 PM
Wow - I just listened to this episode and was shocked by Nathan's obnoxious and counterproductive commentary after the story. 

I have not listened to episode 458 but when I heard the management of Escape Pod telling their listeners/supporters to F*## OFF I went to see what was said in the forum that triggered Nathan to publicly insult his listeners as simpletons who can’t appreciate "anything without a ray gun."

Unless it was deleted, I didn't see any posted comments that remotely merit such rude, dickish, and counterproductive on-air behavior. 

Escape Pod should be thrilled to have listeners who are engaged enough to come to the forums and express opinions. 

Nathan obviously loved the story -- he called the criticism of it "inexplicable." He was also baffled at why anyone else would feel strongly enough about it to create a new account just to register their opinion.  But him loving the story doesn't make it so objectively great that it it can't be criticized -- including complaints about it apparently being more of a fantasy story than science fiction -- something that obviously bothers quite a few listeners on more than one occasion.

As a result of this rant, Escape Pod should probably expect to see more listeners create throwaway accounts to express their opinions.  After all, who wants to be bullied or insulted publicly for sharing their negative opinion about stories?



I believe the threads split? Please see: http://forum.escapeartists.net/index.php?topic=8157.0

As fair warning, your comment and my response may head to the same place, since they don't have much to do with the episode.

All cat stories start with this statement: “My mother, who was the first cat, told me this...”


El Barto

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Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 01:19:49 AM
Thanks, Fenrix -- I did see that other thread, but I didn't see anything posted by listeners that came even close to being offensive enough to merit the way they were treated in the rant that was part of this episode.  It seems perfectly reasonable for listeners to point out their frustration when certain stories have little or no science fiction, and similarly reasonable for other folks to point out that it regularly happens during "Hugo Month" because Escape Pod runs all of the nominees. 

For what it is worth, I would hope that my comments here are not moved from this thread.  My comments are about the content of this episode.




Fenrix

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Reply #37 on: December 30, 2014, 03:32:39 AM
Thanks, Fenrix -- I did see that other thread, but I didn't see anything posted by listeners that came even close to being offensive enough to merit the way they were treated in the rant that was part of this episode.  It seems perfectly reasonable for listeners to point out their frustration when certain stories have little or no science fiction, and similarly reasonable for other folks to point out that it regularly happens during "Hugo Month" because Escape Pod runs all of the nominees. 

For what it is worth, I would hope that my comments here are not moved from this thread.  My comments are about the content of this episode.



For what it's worth, it was four straight weeks of "you got fantasy in my SF!" as a recurring theme. Maybe it needs a special content warning.

"WARNING. This episode is a HUGO finalist. If the possibility of encountering fantasy makes you uncomfortable, hit the next button. You'll only have yourself to blame if you miss one of the best stories of the year as voted upon by Speculative Fiction Fandom."

All cat stories start with this statement: “My mother, who was the first cat, told me this...”


adrianh

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Reply #38 on: December 30, 2014, 03:37:31 PM

For what it's worth, it was four straight weeks of "you got fantasy in my SF!" as a recurring theme. Maybe it needs a special content warning.

"WARNING. This episode is a HUGO finalist. If the possibility of encountering fantasy makes you uncomfortable, hit the next button. You'll only have yourself to blame if you miss one of the best stories of the year as voted upon by Speculative Fiction Fandom."

OMG. That's awesome. Please do it next year. Pretty please ;-)



matweller

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Reply #39 on: December 31, 2014, 03:23:21 AM
For what it's worth, it was four straight weeks of "you got fantasy in my SF!" as a recurring theme. Maybe it needs a special content warning.

"WARNING. This episode is a HUGO finalist. If the possibility of encountering fantasy makes you uncomfortable, hit the next button. You'll only have yourself to blame if you miss one of the best stories of the year as voted upon by Speculative Fiction Fandom."

He's right, it wasn't the one week, it was the running theme in the forums and in the comments on the site and no amount of explanation would slow the determined from repeating the same line, more and more insistently, less and less appropriately. I think I actually had to block one of the comments on the site, which I prefer to not do under any circumstances.

You're right, too, though. After the fact and without the same points of reference it doesn't sound the same. Since Nathaniel reads the forums, I know he'll take this under consideration. If he has time and opts to re-record a less salty version, I will gladly edit it into the episode and re-release it. Thank you for pointing it out.  :)



woodenmango

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Reply #40 on: January 20, 2015, 07:10:26 PM
I was most intrigued by the teenage girls who adapted to the new order. What if the protagonist was a girl whose father ended up the same way, but her family's and her culture's tragedies were accompanied by a sudden opening of opportunities for herself? That would have been a significantly different story, but the glimpses we got of these women made me wish we got just a little more information about them...how did the customs girl react when the man who verbally harassed her got shot in the head? It could be justified as the protagonist, even after all these years of being intimidated by the Women, barely notices the lower-case women from his own society, but I think just a few more sentences here and there could have helped.

I agree with you on this. That part of the plot is what made me very interested.

Also I just wanted to note, I may be remembering wrong but the intro had a warning about subtle references to sex. I feel like it should have said references to sexual violence. Because that is what actually happened. There are some people who may not be bothered by a depiction of consensual sex but would be very disturbed with even a subtle portrayal of rape. (Also personally I didn't think words along the lines of "she pulled me into her" are subtle at all. Thats pretty clear about what is going on. but anywho...)