Skills you need if you´re thrown back in time

[wherethewild]

Well, just in case the predestination thread does work out that we can travel back in time.... It got me thinking about what I would need to be able to invent for survival if I found myself in, say, medieval England. (Okay, blame Michael Crichton, Diana Gabaldon and a slew of made-for-tv movies for this idea).

I figure I would be able to discover antibiotics (although purifying them would be an interesting experiment), instigate aseptic technique and hygiene and probably do a better job of doctoring than those around. I could also cook up a mean potato dish to introduce a new dietary item and I could make sure I´m not eating ergot conaminated rye. I could identify blood groups (thank you 1st year) for blood transfusions etc.I also could invent microscopes and the toothbrush, something which I think medieval England would thank me for.

But I´m no engineer, and I reckon it´d be pretty handy to have one around. Building a septic system, aquaducts, wheels with bearings and steam engines would be great.

Of course, I´m assuming I wouldn´t be burnt as a witch within hours of my arrival. Or that all the diseases around that my immune system has never seen wouldn´t kill me off equally quickly.

[Thaurismunths]

How about the most basic of basics: Fire
Knowing how to start a fire from scratch is of vital importance, even today because it means you stay warm, can cook food, and boil water.

[wherethewild]

Hah, didn´t think of that. I guess I was figuring there´d be a medieval society around you and you wouldn´t have to recreate what they already had up and running. Would I know how to start a fire without matches? Well it´d be a bit of work, but I think I´d get there. I´ve watched the occasional Survivor episode!

Hunting, killing, skinning, tanning, sewing, weaving, gardening, animal husbandry, basic woodworking, extracting metal from ore, smithing would all be required if there were no society around you to help out.

Then we go onto my list of "what you need to know for when society breaks down and you have to fend for yourself".

[Anarkey]

How about the most basic of basics: Fire
Knowing how to start a fire from scratch is of vital importance, even today because it means you stay warm, can cook food, and boil water.

This thread just BEGS for a link to the funniest pleistocene era flash fiction Escape Pod has EVER run.  If you haven't, or haven't recently, heard Haskell's One Million Years BFE, you should!

Relevant excerpt (hopefully this is short enough to qualify as fair use):

Day Five:

No fire yet. Tom Hanks in Castaway had fire by now.

Day Six:

No fire yet. Boys in Lord of the Flies had fire by now.

Day Seven:

No fire yet. Gilligan had fire by now.

Day Eight:

Success! I have fire!

Though I no longer have eyebrows.
-----

Seeeeee? Funny!  Go hear it again and laugh. 

[Thaurismunths]

Hah, didn´t think of that. I guess I was figuring there´d be a medieval society around you and you wouldn´t have to recreate what they already had up and running. Would I know how to start a fire without matches? Well it´d be a bit of work, but I think I´d get there. I´ve watched the occasional Survivor episode!

Hunting, killing, skinning, tanning, sewing, weaving, gardening, animal husbandry, basic woodworking, extracting metal from ore, smithing would all be required if there were no society around you to help out.

Then we go onto my list of "what you need to know for when society breaks down and you have to fend for yourself".

Oh, ok. I was coming at it from the "dropped on your head in to Medieval England and have to make a go of it" angle, so I was thinking that you'd need those basic survival skills for the first couple days/weeks. But in truth, you'd still need to know a lot of the skills listed, depending on how far back you go and where you land, such as how to light a fire by hand. There is a little skill to it and your neighbors will get sick of having to light your cook fires for you in the summer.

A few things I'd have to study up on before going and then "invent" when I got there would be a mechanical spinning wheel (to turn fibers in to thread), a mechanical weaving loom, and a mechanical sewing machine. Even one of those devices could make me a very wealthy man inside of a two years, but still keep me off the time cop's radar.
On the cooler side of things, understanding a little about metallurgy would go a long way too. Understanding Pearlite nodes, carbon structure, and composite metals would allow you to make consistently high quality materials for armor and weapons, and that too would be very valuable.

Anarkey!
How in G-d(es)(s)('s) name did I miss THAT flash piece??? Thank you for mentioning it, and I'll have to listen to it when I get home tonight.
I can't believe I missed one!

[ClintMemo]

Wasn't English significantly different back then?
I would think that one of the most important skills would be "being able to communicate."  I'm an American and I often have difficulty following current English accents.   

[Mfitz]

A few things I'd have to study up on before going and then "invent" when I got there would be a mechanical spinning wheel (to turn fibers in to thread), a mechanical weaving loom, and a mechanical sewing machine.

The loom and the spinning wheel really aren't all that complicated machines.  I've taken my spinning wheel apart and put it back together.  Of course the modern ones have things like ball bearings in the main axle so you get a smooth motion. My guess is that of the three a sewing machine is the most complicated on a mechanical level.  Spinning wheel, loom and sewing machine can all work with only human power, but you really want a revolution come up with a power source for the machines.

If you really want a revolution invent the flush toilet, feminine hygiene products, and the birth control pill.  Three under appreciated item that make modern society possible

[Mr. Tweedy]

This is actually something I'd like to know about.  Does anyone know of a book I could get that really explains any of these things?  (Call me paranoid.)

I've got the basic knowhow to invent all the stuff that's been mentioned, plus cool stuff like a car: I could figure out how to build a Model-T with a little tinkering, I think.  But where would I get the metal, the tools?  I can't invent a microscope until I can make quality glass.  I can't guild a steam engine unless I can cast big pieces of iron.  That's the stuff I'd be stumped on.  I'd be sitting there with the knowledge to build a telephone but not the knowledge to make wire.  I'd like a book on how those basic pieces of technology can be made.

If you really want a revolution invent the flush toilet, feminine hygiene products, and the birth control pill.  Three under appreciated item that make modern society possible

What did women do back then?  That's an issue they never address in the Disney Princess movies.

[jrderego]

Well, just in case the predestination thread does work out that we can travel back in time.... It got me thinking about what I would need to be able to invent for survival if I found myself in, say, medieval England. (Okay, blame Michael Crichton, Diana Gabaldon and a slew of made-for-tv movies for this idea).

I figure I would be able to discover antibiotics (although purifying them would be an interesting experiment), instigate aseptic technique and hygiene and probably do a better job of doctoring than those around. I could also cook up a mean potato dish to introduce a new dietary item and I could make sure I´m not eating ergot conaminated rye. I could identify blood groups (thank you 1st year) for blood transfusions etc.I also could invent microscopes and the toothbrush, something which I think medieval England would thank me for.

But I´m no engineer, and I reckon it´d be pretty handy to have one around. Building a septic system, aquaducts, wheels with bearings and steam engines would be great.

Of course, I´m assuming I wouldn´t be burnt as a witch within hours of my arrival. Or that all the diseases around that my immune system has never seen wouldn´t kill me off equally quickly.

The ability to speak Latin fluently, so when the Church declared me a to be in league with the devil I could defend myself until the inevitable burning at the stake.

[Mfitz]

Start with something you really need to know how to do to get buy day to day.  Learn the best way to  filter or otherwise purify water, keep stored water pure, build a chimney that draws well, get rid of nightsoil without contaminating ground water, grow food crops without depleting the soil.   Then so you can stay alive while you pass on the knowledge learn to build a fire, bank a fire to last the night, find eatable plants, dry and otherwise preserve food, butcher game and fish, tan hides, make rope, trow a pot, Fletch an arrow, spin thread, weave, knit, sew.  

Then when you know how to feed and clothe yourself you can fool with all the changing the time-line by building a model T in the dark ages stuff.  There's no need for a car without roads, and what good is one without oil wells, or gasoline refineries?  If your goal is to improve the lives of the people you find yourself plopped among far better to start with smaller things.  If your goal is a better future than the one we have today better to start with some social changes, and warnings of the environmental and social problems that go hand in had with development, so you get mechanical looms without slaves picking the cotton and children working 16 hour days in the mill, miners getting killed daily to get coal for the steam engines which pollute the air and water...

[Thaurismunths]

I guess by "mechanical" I meant automated. I've done more than enough spinning and weaving to know that even a retarded chimp can do it. But it is time consuming, so the ability to produce more, and more consistent, material would be a huge boon.

So, wherethewild, what kind of setting exactly did you have in mind for this medieval thing?
Are we getting dropped in to a time warp and having to survive, or is this more like the Timeline setting where we get to make plans in advance and are already ready to integrate ourselves in to the medieval society?
And how far back are we going? A hundred years in any given location changes a lot of what was available and what kind of societies existed.

[SFEley]

Well, just in case the predestination thread does work out that we can travel back in time.... It got me thinking about what I would need to be able to invent for survival if I found myself in, say, medieval England. (Okay, blame Michael Crichton, Diana Gabaldon and a slew of made-for-tv movies for this idea).

There's also the option of adapting to the culture around you.  People actually did survive in medieval England, according to available evidence.  (E.g., the presence of English people today.)  >8->  I can understand not wanting to get near their medical system, but a lot of the other inventions people are talking about would be a lot of trouble for little gain.  How much good would it do you personally to invent the microscope?  Or to build a car, even if you could?  What would you do with the car once you had it?  Without paved roads, horses are faster.

But if you really insist on changing the world for your comfort, there are a lot of SF books that use this basic premise that you could use for source material.  S.M. Stirling and Eric Flint seem to be the big guns in this microgenre.  Both posit an entire community being dropped backwards in time, rather than an individual, which makes much bigger change possible very quickly.

[wherethewild]

I was thinking more along the lines of a sudden temporal vortex   whipping you away with no planning possible

As to the specific date, well that I also hadn´t decided on. Just going by a quick wikipedia check (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages) 12th-13th century brought a rise of inventions - good- but famine, black death and the hundred years war - bad. If I had to pick a point I guess post the 100 years war, say 1480 (to give them a bit of time to recover).

I would also suggest we start with assuming we´ve landed in England and not France, Italy, Germany or Spain (or Sweden, the Netherlands, Persia...).

The Latin suggestion is really good, I guess French is probably not so useful following the war. Mftiz suggestions are also good and necessary, but my initial thought experiment followed along the lines of getting accepted in some way by the natives a´la George Pslamanazar, so that basic survival (food, fire, shelter) wasn´t an issue.

[SFEley]

But if you really insist on changing the world for your comfort, there are a lot of SF books that use this basic premise that you could use for source material.

Followup thought:  I'm also a fan of Audrey Niffenegger's The Time Traveler's Wife (one of the few effective SF romances I've seen).  The man in that one had a chronic condition that caused him to randomly jump backwards and forwards in time -- not centuries, but years or decades.  His clothes didn't go with him.  The skills he needed to survive?  Running barefoot, fighting viciously, picking locks, picking pockets.  A naked man appearing in a strange place is in a great deal of jeopardy, and he spent most of his time hiding and stealing clothes and food.  (Fortunately, his older self was able to teach these skills to his younger self, or he probably wouldn't have made it far enough to have an older self.)

[Mfitz]

I've read some Stirling and Flint but for me their political agendas get in the way of their fiction.

My favorite go back in time and try to change things series is Lew A. Frankowski's Conrad Stargard series.  I think first one is The Cross-Time Engineer.

[wherethewild]

There's also the option of adapting to the culture around you.  People actually did survive in medieval England, according to available evidence.  (E.g., the presence of English people today.)  >8->  I can understand not wanting to get near their medical system, but a lot of the other inventions people are talking about would be a lot of trouble for little gain. 

My initial idea was that you (read: I) would try and work into the surrounding culture, not be there just to bump it forward on the technology ladder. An idea of survival rather than planned intervention.

In that situation, I was considering the medical aspects as a really important place to start as life expectancy wasn´t huge and you´ll be meeting a lot of new and unpleasant diseases. That took me then into engineering and chemistry to create the things I´d need to establish a bit of modernish medicine.  

I loved the Time Traveller´s Wife, but in this thought experiment I´m assuming it doesn´t happen all the time and it´s probably a one-way ticket.

[Thaurismunths]

My initial idea was that you (read: I) would try and work into the surrounding culture, not be there just to bump it forward on the technology ladder. An idea of survival rather than planned intervention.
In that situation, I was considering the medical aspects as a really important place to start as life expectancy wasn´t huge and you´ll be meeting a lot of new and unpleasant diseases. That took me then into engineering and chemistry to create the things I´d need to establish a bit of modernish medicine.  

Aah. In that case, the greatest two most useful things you could have IMHO, would be some kind of fluency in Latin (as per jrderego) and a couple of really good books on wild plant and fungus lore. There is so much natural medicine out here in the woods it's kind of funny. With those two, easily acquirable, skills you could set yourself up as a monk. Monks were known, right about then, to keep gardens. In those gardens were all the medicinal plants they needed to be self-sufficient. Fruits and vegetables could be farmed outside the walls or purchased from the local economy.
All in all, getting accepted in a monastic order is probably your best bet. It'd be Spartan living, but you'd have a pretty good survival rate, and could possibly get funded for your tinkering. As for medecine, you could adapt the local monastic order to use better hygene and "discover" better forms of medical treatment. They would teach others, and the surrounding population, and your city might just survive the plagues.

[ClintMemo]

I think you could go a long way to improving your life expectancy by just using hot water and soap.  If you can make fire, you can boil water.

I have no idea how to make soap

[Mfitz]

Have you read Julian May's Many Colored Land and it's sequels?  The characters there know they are going on a one way trip to the Pliocene.  They have a weight limit as to what they can bring with them but can take anything they want as long as it will decay and not be around in the 20th century. Their choices are interesting.  The Pliocene exile series is some of the best SF ever in my opinion and well worth trying to find at your local used book store.  I think all the books are out of print.  The series has one of my all time favorite villians.

[Mfitz]

I think you could go a long way to improving your life expectancy by just using hot water and soap.  If you can make fire, you can boil water.

I have no idea how to make soap

You mix fat/oil and lye/ashes but I don't know the proportions.  I think you boil it and I know the process really stinks.  My husband's grandparents were subsistence farmers in the hollars of Eastern Ky. No electric, plumbing, paved roads, they lived on what they grew on their land.  He's talked about making soap with his grandmother, and it didn't sound fun.

[ClintMemo]

I think you could go a long way to improving your life expectancy by just using hot water and soap.  If you can make fire, you can boil water.

I have no idea how to make soap

You mix fat/oil and lye/ashes but I don't know the proportions.  I think you boil it and I know the process really stinks.  My husband's grandparents were subsistence farmers in the hollars of Eastern Ky. No electric, plumbing, paved roads, they lived on what they grew on their land.  He's talked about making soap with his grandmother, and it didn't sound fun.

I live in Louisville.
I have been to Eastern KY.
There are people there living that way today.

[ClintMemo]

Maybe the most valuable item would be information - a book like "surviving in the wilderness for dummies" (just to make up a title).

[Mfitz]

I think you could go a long way to improving your life expectancy by just using hot water and soap.  If you can make fire, you can boil water.

I have no idea how to make soap

You mix fat/oil and lye/ashes but I don't know the proportions.  I think you boil it and I know the process really stinks.  My husband's grandparents were subsistence farmers in the hollars of Eastern Ky. No electric, plumbing, paved roads, they lived on what they grew on their land.  He's talked about making soap with his grandmother, and it didn't sound fun.

I live in Louisville.
I have been to Eastern KY.
There are people there living that way today.

That's what I was talking about.  His grandma just died last year. 

They did get water in the house around 2000, but they plowed with a horse until the early 80's.

[ClintMemo]

I live in Louisville.
I have been to Eastern KY.
There are people there living that way today.

That's what I was talking about.  His grandma just died last year. 

They did get water in the house around 2000, but they plowed with a horse until the early 80's.

Wow. I assumed you meant "way back when."
My condolences about your grandma.

[BlairHippo]

This makes me think of The Best Ending to a Roleplaying Campaign Ever, as related to me by the GM.

They're playing a modern-day action/adventure game with a bit of sci-fi thrown in.  The GM lets the players get a hold of a time machine that will only be good for one hop, thinking that they'll use it to go back and thwart the plans of the now-unstoppable badguy.  The players respond with "Screw that!  We're gonna jump back to Ancient Egypt and take over the world!"

So they load up on guns 'n' ammo and head for the Pharaohs.  And as they're stepping out of their spent machine into the ancient desert, one of the player characters asks:

"Wait, do any of us speak Ancient Egyptian?"

...roll credits.