Star Wars Nitpicks

[wakela]

Don't get me wrong.  I love Star Wars as much as the next guy.  I love Episodes 1-3 more than the next guy.   But if you let yourself detach just a little, the movies get pretty dopey.  I create this thread more in the spirit of loving jabs than venomous attacks.

BTW, for reasons I can't quite explain starting this thread makes me feel like an SF online forum n00b, like bashing Star Wars is the science fiction equivalent of Godwin's Law or something...

[wakela]

Why should I hate Darth Vader?  He didn't give the order to destroy Alddarraann, Tarkin did.  He tortures Leah, I guess.  He freezes Han Solo.  He kills the guy for letting him down with the Death Star 2 schedule.  But is this really that evil?  I'll buy that he's a prick.

And at some point he had to have looked in the mirror and said, "You know what this needs?  This needs a cape.  No one's wearing capes anymore."

[Heradel]

Why should I hate Darth Vader?  He didn't give the order to destroy Alddarraann, Tarkin did.  He tortures Leah, I guess.  He freezes Han Solo.  He kills the guy for letting him down with the Death Star 2 schedule.  But is this really that evil?  I'll buy that he's a prick.

And at some point he had to have looked in the mirror and said, "You know what this needs?  This needs a cape.  No one's wearing capes anymore."

Leia.

[Russell Nash]

How nitpicky do we want to get?

One little thing I always hated was how clean our group stayed.  They were in a trash compactor with all this goo and water and then the next scene they're all clean and their hair is blow dried and styled.

[oddpod]

i take it you lot have listen to TD0013 on the different point of view podcast?

for those who don't know (if such a thing is possible hear)
TD0013 is a storm trooper who gives out the REAL story behind star wars free of rebel propaganda

check out
http://www.adpov.net/adpov-archives/

tiz fab

[Listener]

One thing that bugged me, which has since been addressed on numerous blogs and forums, is the amount of time between V and VI.  When I first saw the films I assumed it had been fairly recent, like a year or less.  But later I heard that it had been several years, based on the phrase "No more training do you require" said by Yoda.  I think eventually George Lucas said what it was, but it's unnecessarily confusing.  Since the characters don't visibly age, it's hard to tell, whereas in I, II, and III, it's reasonably clear how much time has passed based on Anakin's age and, later, Padme's pregnancy.

[wakela]

Engineer 1: Hey, how's it going on those plans for Death Star 2.  Do you have it looking like it's not quite finished?

Engineer 2: Yeah, that was no problem.  The first one didn't need to be so big, anyway.  But check this out...No bottomless pits.

Engineer 1: What?

Engineer 2: DS1 had all those pits.  They just seemed dangerous, so we eliminated them on DS2.

Engineer 1: No good.  The Emperor wants them in.  In fact he wants one in his office.

Engineer 2: OK.  No biggie, I guess.  How about this, then.  The exhaust port to the reactor.  We put a bend in it and added a grate.  So pho- I mean proton torpedoes won't make it through to the reactor.  Also, we took out the trench that let right up to it.  Whose idea was that, anyway?

Engineer 1:  Mmmm.  Yeah.  About that.  We actually need the hole bigger.

[wakela]

i take it you lot have listen to TD0013 on the different point of view podcast?

for those who don't know (if such a thing is possible hear)
TD0013 is a storm trooper who gives out the REAL story behind star wars free of rebel propaganda

This is good, too.
http://darthside.blogspot.com/

[ClintMemo]

"Beware the powers of the emperor."  (He can shoot lighting bolts out of his hands!)

"I'll tell you what, you guys fly all the way down the trench.  I'll just fly to that end of it and then in.  I'll even hover for a second so I can take careful aim at that exhaust port."

"Hey R2, I'm adding a couple of new attachments to go along with your rockets, computer outlet, periscope, cattle-prod  and light saber launcher - a blaster and a droid-to-English translator."

"Ok, I'm here at Jabba's palace.  I'll just Jedi-mind trick my way in, kill Jabba and all his evil minions (being a Jedi knight is so cool), find Han and stroll away.  Wait. I loaned my light saber to R2. Did I ever get it back? Aw, Crap."

[clichekiller]

Lets see...
1) The sounds the Tie Fighters made when passing...it's space, near perfect vacuum...there is no means of propagating sound in space.  (See also Jango Fett's Seismic Charges in Episode 2)

2) Boba Fett, the baddest bounty hunter in all of known space got punked...he deserved a better death, hell even a decapitation, ala father, would have been preferable.

3) Death Star is HOW big?  And they only have ONE tractor beam?  Yeah I know they wanted them to escape to track them but it was a little too obvious.

which brings me to number #4...

4) No guerrilla organization would have ever allowed Leia anywhere near their super secret hidden rebel base after having just escaped from the Death Star.  That screamed trap.  There would have been protocols for exchanging ships at least once in their. 

5) I know it's 20 years later but all vestiges of Clone War tech is wiped from the universe?  Hell I still see original VW bugs on the road.  He diverged too much with the ship designs in some aspects and stayed two close with others. 

6) The Jedi went WAY too easy.  Even with Order 66 there should have been A LOT more warning.  I don't care how much cloudiness the emperor could put out.

7) Lets not forget the battle scene on the lava at the end of Episode III.  Dramatic looking HELLS YES, but those boys should have been toasted in three seconds flat.  And don't get me started on the don't try it Anakin I have the high ground thing...jump to the shore and then start battling.

Mitichlorians or however you spell the damn things, Lucas' need to divest the Force from any religious / spiritual aspect it once had. 

9) Suck up and deal already George and re-release the Star Wars Holiday special.  You put it out there in there, not us.  I'm tired of having to watch my fuzzy originally taped off of air VCR version. 

That being said the original trilogy is still one of my favorites and I love the universe that has grown up around them. 

[Russell Nash]

1) The sounds the Tie Fighters made when passing...it's space, near perfect vacuum...there is no means of propagating sound in space.

If you have a movie with only short space scenes, like 2001, you can do the no sound thing and it works.  However when you have a movie that has big battles and lots of action, going without sound is just boring.  Lucas made the choice to ignore the physics of sound, just like they did in all versions of Star Trek, on B5, BSG, etc.

[clichekiller]

I don't remember B5 breaking this one.  I'll have to re-watch it to check. 

[Russell Nash]

I don't remember B5 breaking this one.  I'll have to re-watch it to check. 

Thrusters and explosions.

[hotape6]

Jar Jar.

Nuff said.

[oddpod]

I don't remember B5 breaking this one.  I'll have to re-watch it to check. 

Thrusters and explosions.

but it did have more realistic phisiks in relashon to the movment of obgects(eg starfures) thrue a zero G vacume,

[Russell Nash]

I don't remember B5 breaking this one.  I'll have to re-watch it to check. 

Thrusters and explosions.

but it did have more realistic phisiks in relashon to the movment of obgects(eg starfures) thrue a zero G vacume,

Oh yeah, B5 was great for not having Magical technology.  All of the earthling stuff was very real.  So real, in fact, that NASA contacted the creator of the show to ask if they could use the design of the starfury.  They thought it was the best design for a forklift type of ship for the spacestation.  It probably got axed along with everything else when they switched over to the moronic moonbase idea.

[Listener]

Jar Jar.

Nuff said.

As much as I disliked the Jar Jar character -- and the fact that it's HIS fault Palpatine came to power -- I don't know if he qualifies as a nitpick.  He's a pain, sure, but I could totally see a race like the Gungans having a village idiot like Jar Jar who tags along with the good guys and eventually makes something of himself.

[hotape6]

As much as I disliked the Jar Jar character -- and the fact that it's HIS fault Palpatine came to power -- I don't know if he qualifies as a nitpick. 
...

That's exactly the reason I think Jar Jar qualifies as a nitpick.  The Emperor has Jar Jar to thank for gaining control of the Republic -- it's a cop out above and beyond the level of Jango getting unceremoniously beheaded (and Boba falling into the sarlaac pit, for that matter, although at least in the Star Wars books he survived).

[hotape6]

... recognize R2 and Threepio?
... put two and two together and figure Obi Wan would hole up in Tatooine?
... give his armor a splash of color, maybe with an accessory like a nice ruby brooch or a green shawl for those, you know, tedious Coruscant dinner parties?

[Heradel]

... give his armor a splash of color, maybe with an accessory like a nice ruby brooch or a green shawl for those, you know, tedious Coruscant dinner parties?

Dude, the status lights in the middle of the suit?

[eytanz]

As much as I disliked the Jar Jar character -- and the fact that it's HIS fault Palpatine came to power -- I don't know if he qualifies as a nitpick. 
...

That's exactly the reason I think Jar Jar qualifies as a nitpick.  The Emperor has Jar Jar to thank for gaining control of the Republic -- it's a cop out above and beyond the level of Jango getting unceremoniously beheaded (and Boba falling into the sarlaac pit, for that matter, although at least in the Star Wars books he survived).

I don't understand this - why is the Emperor gaining power through Jar Jar a cop out? Jar Jar may be a badly written character - he is - but what is a cop out here?

[DKT]

For me, the Jar Jar cop-out is that he disappeared after the first movie.  I wasn't really fond of him in that first movie and neither were most other people so Lucas should have fixed the problem up front instead of ignoring it, the same way he did with midichlorians.  Both of those seemed like a cop-out to me. 

Another nitpick that I kind of dig is Han Solo saying "Then I'll see you in hell!" in the ESB.  I just thought it was interesting that the concept of hell existed in the SW universe. 

[eytanz]

The disappearance of the midichlorians is certainly a cop-out, but Jar Jar is in Ep2, playing a small but pivotal role. It didn't feel like a cop-out to me, more just a character drifting to the sidelines of the story, which is natural in an epic tale. My complaint about jar-jar is his annoying writing and characterization in Ep1, which served no purpose.

My confusion, though, stems from hotape6, who, if I understood correctly, isn't referring to Jar Jar's disappearance as a cop-out, but rather to his support of Palpatine in Ep2. I just don't understand what makes it a cop-out (which isn't to say I can't think of better alternatives to the story; I can; but mediocre storytelling isn't necessarily a cop-out).

[Listener]

As much as I disliked the Jar Jar character -- and the fact that it's HIS fault Palpatine came to power -- I don't know if he qualifies as a nitpick.
...

That's exactly the reason I think Jar Jar qualifies as a nitpick.  The Emperor has Jar Jar to thank for gaining control of the Republic -- it's a cop out above and beyond the level of Jango getting unceremoniously beheaded (and Boba falling into the sarlaac pit, for that matter, although at least in the Star Wars books he survived).

I understand your point.  However, in real life I think it only takes one pebble to start an avalanche (or one straw to break a camel's back, depending upon your metaphor of choice).  Someone HAD to be the catalyst to bring Palpatine to power, and once Lucas figured out that the hardcore fans didn't like Jar Jar very much, maybe he was just throwing them a bone.

I saw it as more of a parallel to real life than a cop-out as such.  I saw it reflecting the fear of Lucas, any other writers working on the script, and many others that someone from as humble beginnings as Jar Jar could conceivably destroy freedom as we know it, leaving a power-mad despot a clear run-up to be in charge of everything.

[BrandtPileggi]

Engineer 1: Hey, how's it going on those plans for Death Star 2.  Do you have it looking like it's not quite finished?

Engineer 2: Yeah, that was no problem.  The first one didn't need to be so big, anyway.  But check this out...No bottomless pits.

Engineer 1: What?

Engineer 2: DS1 had all those pits.  They just seemed dangerous, so we eliminated them on DS2.

Engineer 1: No good.  The Emperor wants them in.  In fact he wants one in his office.

Engineer 2: OK.  No biggie, I guess.  How about this, then.  The exhaust port to the reactor.  We put a bend in it and added a grate.  So pho- I mean proton torpedoes won't make it through to the reactor.  Also, we took out the trench that let right up to it.  Whose idea was that, anyway?

Engineer 1:  Mmmm.  Yeah.  About that.  We actually need the hole bigger.

Wakela now owes me a fresh pair of pants AND... draws.

"No good.  The Emperor wants them in.  In fact he wants one in his office."
-Priceless