Flickr censorship

[wherethewild]

I´m not sure how many people are aware of it, but flickr has just launched a german site (and a few others like singapore, honkong, korea). In these, they have put moderate censorship automatically on, meaning that no german can view "questionable" photos that is, photos of naked breasts, bottoms etc etc. Interestingly swastikas weren´t included.

It can´t be turned off.

For some reason flickr has decided to censor an entire country, telling adults such as myself what I am allowed to view and what I am not. Note that this has absolutely nothing to do with any German law. In fact it is clearly stated within German federal law that censorship is illegal.

I am majorly pissed off and I´m very worried what this means about the future of things to come.

[Mr. Tweedy]

So don't use Flickr.

Flickr isn't censoring you, they're just putting limitations on the type of service they offer, like any company does.  Steve won't let people go "trolling" on this board.  Is that censorship?

[eytanz]

Mr Tweedy is right that this isn't technically censorship, but I'm with wherethewild here on the principle - this is stupid, and annoying, and sets a bad precedent (or, more accurately, furthers a bad trend).

[Listener]

I´m not sure how many people are aware of it, but flickr has just launched a german site (and a few others like singapore, honkong, korea). In these, they have put moderate censorship automatically on, meaning that no german can view "questionable" photos that is, photos of naked breasts, bottoms etc etc. Interestingly swastikas weren´t included.

It can´t be turned off.

It amuses me that this censorship occurs in a country where people are -- according to my admittedly-limited experience with the few German people I know (and their families) -- more sex-friendly than the U.S.

[slic]

I'm fully behind Mr. Tweedy on this.  It's not censorship at all.  Censorship would be if they attempted to restirct those pictures everywhere.

Flickr is not a public space, someone owns it, and they should be allowed to decide what they want in their "place".  Do you insist that a restaurant get you hamburgers if they don't serve them?

Certainly complain to them if you feel it necessary, let them know they should change to get your business.

[Heradel]

Er, could it just be a bug?

[Mr. Tweedy]

Certainly complain to them if you feel it necessary, let them know they should change to get your business.

Isn't Flickr free?

[DKT]

Certainly complain to them if you feel it necessary, let them know they should change to get your business.

Isn't Flickr free?

Sure, but so is Escape Pod.  That said, I agree with Mr. Tweedy and Slic.  Write an email to flickr. 

And like some of the others, I'm a bit confused.  Why is Germany of all places being blocked out?  It seems a bit...bizarre.

[eytanz]

My guess is the reasoning behind this is that German users, being from a more liberal society, are more likely to post pictures that would be offensive to people in conservative countries, especially flickr's home base in America.

[wherethewild]

Actually, flickr has a paid service and there are a lot of pro users who pay for it. They are also unable to access selected photos. In this case (removing the question of free hosting) it should be easier to understand: people are paying to have their pictures hosted and to share them with friends and the rest of the world. Flickr has decided the rest of the world shall not include Germany.

If Steve had decided that Lust for Learning was to be released to the world except for all those in living in California you´d also question it, and if you lived in California be angry at this decision being made for you.

My guess is the reasoning behind this is that German users, being from a more liberal society, are more likely to post pictures that would be offensive to people in conservative countries, especially flickr's home base in America.

Germans aren´t being censored on what they can post, only on what they can see. If this was an issue then it would be America that was being restricted for it´s own conservative health.

[eytanz]

Germans aren´t being censored on what they can post, only on what they can see. If this was an issue then it would be America that was being restricted for it´s own conservative health.

Oh.

I guess I am pretty confused about this as well, then.

[slic]

Not much to be confused about.

It's a private business that made a bad decision.  It's not like that doesn't happen all the time.

Flickr is the only online photo hosting site.  Do all the others do this? 

[eytanz]

I'm not confused about whether or not it made a bad decision, I'm confused as to why they made such a decision. Maybe I'm naive, but I tend to assume that business decisions have some sort of reasoning behind them, faulty as it may be. Here, I can't guess at it.

[slic]

Maybe I'm naive, but I tend to assume that business decisions have some sort of reasoning behind them, faulty as it may be.

You'd burn out your brain trying to logic out some of the decisions Suits make.  I've been in tech business where it is fair to assume some of the more logical people would be and they come up with doozies

[Michael]

Flickr, now owned by Yahoo, instituted blanket filters to objectionable material for all users a few months ago... you have to set your "safesearch" preference, and as I recall lifting the filter was not intuitive.

I was surprised, but looked it up... the options for safesearch setting "does not apply if your Yahoo! ID is based in Singapore, Germany, Hong Kong or Korea"

This must be in reaction to GERMAN law, however.  Yahoo would not single out Germany without reason, while leaving France and Austria unfiltered.  I looked that up:

"The Ministry for Families, Seniors, Women and Children (Bundesministerium fur Familie, Senioren, Frauen und Jugend) continues to issue takedown notices to foreign web hosts under the "Act of the Dissemination of Publications and other Media Morally Harmful to Youth" in relation to offshore sites that contain material "harmful to youth" including online pornography that would be rated X or RC"

http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/cens3.html#ger

It seems your ire is misplaced.  You should probably write Bundesministerium fur Familie, Senioren, Frauen und Jugend.

Why don't you get a yahoo ID based out of another country?   

[wherethewild]

Flickr has now said that it was a decision to deal with local legal requirements. Flickr hasn´t said which ones, so people are assuming it has to do with the Youth Protection laws here, which seem to be quite strict. So it appears that, rather than implementing a way to differentiate that I am not a child, it just slammed the whole country. Austria and Switzerland, with different laws, have also been censored- because most use a yahoo.de account. Also, as Michael pointed out it does nothing to stop german youth from getting a non-.de Yahoo account. There was no statement from Flickr that the Terms of Service were changing with the new setup, in fact they announced it was just a desktop/language change. Yahoo does have offices here and it hasn´t implemented such a drastic measure.

The majority of photos which I have seen now which have been restricted have been labelled 'moderate' based on the conservative American views of nudity, not on German. I haven't yet seen a picture which you would not be able to see on prime time tv or the cover of any magazine here. It certainly appears to have been a major overreaction on their part and one which has led to a lot of bad press. Germans are particularly sensitive to censorship issues -I´d recommend to anyone to see The Lives of Others for a bit of background as to why. It amazes me that a company could not have prepared properly for this; could not envisage that cutting off a country from access to services they´ve paid for will result in a huge outcry; and have had absolutely no dialogue with their customers while dealing with the problem they´ve created.

[slic]

It amazes me that a company could not have prepared properly for this;

See my most previous post....

[Michael]

Yahoo is notoriously badly managed.  Predictions abound that Google will buy them out. 

[Michael]

Yahoo Fired their President today, and reshuffled their remaining officers. 

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