Best Villains

[ClintMemo]

I thought I saw somewhere that he got really good reviews for his performance in Equus.

Whatever they do professionally, I just hope they don't end up as tabloid fodder.  There are so many stories here in the US of child actors growing up to be adult trainwrecks, I'd really hate to see that happen to them.

Whether or not they turn into trainwrecks, the tabloids will write that they did.

Unfortunately, that's probably true, but I'd hate to see them be right.

[Mr. Tweedy]

I doubt it.  I think you have to give the tabloid some kind of fodder.  Even if the tabloid accounts are wildly exaggerated and even if they're 90% made-up, there is still some kind misbehavior required to fuel them.  I think if a person really did just live a decent life and didn't make a fool of themselves, the tabloids would move on to more interesting prey.

It's something I've thought about a little, since I intend to be quite famous someday.     I don't think paparazzi would follow me around: I'm too boring.  "Today Josh Hugo spent 8 hours on set, directing an episode of his serial.  Then he went home.  Later on, a friend came over.  The played go and Halo 3.  Then he went to bed, with his wife."  You've got to do something that at least looks scandalous, otherwise the tabloids have nothing to embellish.  I think if you just did your thing and didn't court the press, they'd probably leave you alone, even if you were famous.

[ClintMemo]

It's something I've thought about a little, since I intend to be quite famous someday.     I don't think paparazzi would follow me around: I'm too boring.  "Today Josh Hugo spent 8 hours on set, directing an episode of his serial.  Then he went home.  Later on, a friend came over.  The played go and Halo 3.  Then he went to bed, with his wife." 

"After spending eight grueling hours on the set of his new controversial serial, Director Josh Hugo, a.k.a. 'Mr Tweedy' went home in frustration. After brooding for hours at his home, a friend arrived to help comfort him.  Upon leaving, the friend, who wished to remain anonymous, denied rumors that they were engaged in any romantic relationship, insisting that they spent the time playing ultra-violent video games.   Not long after, Josh was seen seeking solace in the arms of his long suffering wife.  At this point, it's not clear how or if his controversial serial will conclude, but the strain is obviously taking it's toll on the one time up-and-coming producer."

[Mr. Tweedy]

Ha ha!  That's not bad.   

[ClintMemo]

Thanks.

But imagine what a pro could do....

[Planish]

"After spending eight grueling hours on the set of his new controversial serial, Director Josh Hugo, a.k.a. 'Mr Tweedy' went home in frustration. After brooding for hours at his home, a friend arrived to help comfort him.  Upon leaving, the friend, who wished to remain anonymous, denied rumors that they were engaged in any romantic relationship, insisting that they spent the time playing ultra-violent video games.   Not long after, Josh was seen seeking solace in the arms of his long suffering wife.  At this point, it's not clear how or if his controversial serial will conclude, but the strain is obviously taking it's toll on the one time up-and-coming producer."

For starters, change "they spent the time playing ultra-violent video games" to "they spent the time playing ultra-violent games", and then "Not long after, Josh was seen seeking the arms of his suffering wife" just to make you wonder how violent the games were.

[Mr. Tweedy]

So, now that this thread has gone completely and utterly off topic (due in no small part to myself), I'm back to wondering:

What makes a great villain?  We've got probably ten lists, and there's a lot of variety.  You've got genocidal murderers (like Darth Vader) to people who don't kill anybody (Dolores Umbridge).  Beings of supernatural malevolence (Samara, Sauron, Dr. Doom) to plain old bad people (Hans Gruber).

What makes these people/monster stand out from the pack?

[DKT]

Not to be flip, but quite simply, they scare me/creep me out. 

All the ones I mentioned creeped me out at some point (Vader no longer does, but he terrified me as a kid).  It also helps, at least for me, if they have a flicker of humanity to them.

[ClintMemo]

I think it depends on how much time they get in the story.
Sauron is just an evil menace in LOTR, but he's not actually in the book all that much, and that works fine.  The story isn't about him. If the villain gets lots of page/screen time, they need to be fleshed out and I need to understand why they are the way they are.  They have to have talents, skills or abilities that I can admire.  Hannibal Lector (I've only seen the original movie) is a good example.  I admire his ability to control his emotions, his keen intellect and his ability to manipulate people, but, (Holy Crap!) he is one scary, evil guy. He's like the evil Sherlock Holmes from the other universe in Star Trek. (hmmm, there's an idea in there I think - hang on, let me run to me writer's notebook.)

[Listener]

I hit on this in the "how do you write a villain" thread.  I think the most important part of a villain is that he's a round character.  That's why I never really was frightened by Sauron in LOTR, but Saruman I believed as a bad guy.  (Also Wormtongue.)  It's like, okay, Sauron's evil, but... uh... okay... whatever.

The Borg are an exception because while they don't grow as characters (except for the Queen and Hugh's offshoots) they change nonetheless in their acquisition of new technology.

Voldemort, also... to me, not such a great villain.  I mean, okay, once we get to Book Six we start to understand him and he becomes a better villain, but in the first four books he's just sort of this specter of evil, and in the fifth, he's a more evil presence but we just have to take on faith that he is, indeed, evil.

It's like... okay, take Slytherin.  Supposed to be evil.  All the students are pretty much drawn as flat, though the teachers are round (ie: Snape, Slughorn -- literally and figuratively).  So you feel more worried about Snape than Malfoy.

The problem with film is that you often don't have the opportunity to face a fully rounded villain, at least not in a major motion picture.  Most people don't want to think that much, or at least, studio execs think they don't.  In Transformers, none of the bad guys except the CD player dude were really round characters, but on the TV show, Megatron and Starscream were both fully-formed characters.

On TV, you have the luxury of a story arc to really establish a good villain -- the opera guy from Highlander (series), for example, appeared in several episodes, and we got to know him and why he hates MacLeod from the flashback sequences.

IMO, the best villains are the ones that are the protagonists or the pragmatists -- books/movies/shows about a villain, like Day Watch or Dexter; books/movies/shows with Lawful Evil characters... they are doing what we consider "evil" because they think it's the right thing to do.

(Think about good guys killing bad guys... killing a bad guy is good, because you've gotten rid of him, but bad, because you killed him... so are you good or evil?)