Movies Destroyed by Sequels

[Russell Nash]

This topic came up recently, and since it was something going through my head anyway, I thought it might make a good thread.

What good/great movie was reduced to laughable status because of the sequel(s)?  I put this thread in this section so that we don't have to stay with just SF films.

I think the ultimate example is Rocky.  I haven't seen the newest one so don't sream and holler at me if it redeemed the whole franchise. (*cough* not likely)

The first one won three oscars, including best film, and had seven other nominations, including best screenplay, actor, actress, and two for supporting actor.  This is a real serious film not just a testosterone action flick. 

The second one was OK, third bad, fourth laughable, fifth (did anyone actually watch the fifth one?).  It is now almost impossible to talk about the original without someone scoffing.

[ClintMemo]

Highlander
The first is a pretty good movie. The second is one of the worst movies ever - and nullifies the ending of the first.
I never saw any after that, but what I saw of the show was pretty good.

Alien
The first two are great in their own right especially considering how different they are from each other.
Then they made the third and started it by making the second one pointless by killing the child Ripley rescued.
The forth was mostly just stupid.

[eytanz]

I'll just mention a few really obvious ones, and maybe return later for more:

The Matrix.

Star wars (I doubt I need to spell it out, but first two sequels were great, and it all went downhill from there).

[ClintMemo]

The Matrix.

I thought the third was a bit disappointing, but I really liked the second one.  I'm sure I'm in the minority on that.

[Russell Nash]

Star wars (I doubt I need to spell it out, but first two sequels were great, and it all went downhill from there).

I watched them again last year and Jedi was already weakening the films.  The changes Lucas made to the DVDs further weaken it.  HAN SOLO SHOT FIRST!!!!

[eytanz]

Star wars (I doubt I need to spell it out, but first two sequels were great, and it all went downhill from there).

I watched them again last year and Jedi was already weakening the films. [/quote[

Jedi has its problems, but it wasn't ruining the franchise - for most of it, it keeps the spirit of fun adventure going and does it well. It sort of loses its way towards the end, but in a forgivable way.

The prequels, however, may have occasional good moments, but they sucked the sense of fun right out. And that's the greatest problem - sure, the plot doesn't make sense and the attempts at "comic relief" are massively irritating, but as long as it was fun I didn't care.

The changes Lucas made to the DVDs further weaken it.  HAN SOLO SHOT FIRST!!!!

Absolutely

[DKT]

The Matrix.

I thought the third was a bit disappointing, but I really liked the second one.  I'm sure I'm in the minority on that.

Interesting, I thought the third one was okay but hated the second one.  Regardless, they both sucked when compared to the original.  The Animatrix was cool, though. 

Scream 2 sucked, expept when they were talking about how sequels suck.  It was like they were trying to figure out "who will the audience never guess it is?"

To further the Aliens thing, I present Aliens vs. Predator (and the upcoming AvP2.  I thought Aliens 3 and 4 had some interesting parts but some even bigger flaws. 

Highlander 2 is one of the worst movies I've ever seen because it seemed to hate the first film so much.

I really liked Pitch Black and had hopes for Chronicles of Riddick.  Bleh.  What a poorly written/constructed movie.

The film sequels to Silence of the Lambs (never read the books).  Talk about taking a terrifying character and turning him into a cannibalstic Batman.

Batman Forever and Batman Returns.  'nuff said.

That said, I thought the best part of Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back was when Matt Damon and Ben Affleck made the sequel to Good Will Hunting: Open Hunting Season.  That was freaking hilarious. 

[lowky]

Back to the Future

Saw, original concept with the plot twists, Saw II disappointing, Saw III beyond disappointing and boggling the mind to know there are further sequels planned (Spoiler allert) [size=03pt]Everyone is dead at the end of saw iii that has been in the others[/size]

[eytanz]

Back to the Future

I disagree here - I mean, the first is by far the best, but 2 and 3 are still decent movies.

[slic]

Star Trek 1 and 2 were very very good 3,4,5,7+ all sucked donkey water!  Except First Contact whatever number that was, that was only half sucky.

Pretty much any superhero movie gets worse with each sequel - mostly because they over do it trying to "top" the previous one.  (haven't seen FF2 - this may be the exception).  I like Batman Returns a fair bit(Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman was great).  Did you mean Batman Begins (Christen Bale), ClintMemo?  That was sucked so hard I left before it was over.  Maybe you squished the name with Superman Returns, which was clearly another horrible movie - Superman Whines would have been a better title.

Rocky and Highlander are the best examples, though - spectacular first movies and then nothing but crap!

I wonder if a more difficult question would be - which movie sequel was as good or better than the original? The Harry Potter movies have been consistently good (ignoring the fact that the books are way better!).

Casino Royale was a Bond sequel that was very very good, though it wasn't really a sequel.  Some Bond movies are good sequels, some stunk - though again not so much sequels as other tales - Bond never really changes or grows as a character.  Maybe why I liked Casino Royale - the Bond character actually changed.

[Russell Nash]

Back to the Future

I disagree here - I mean, the first is by far the best, but 2 and 3 are still decent movies.

When I saw the sequels originally in the theater, I hated them.  I watched them last year and I thought they were pretty good.  I'm guessing expectation has something to do with it.

[ClintMemo]

It wasn't me that mentioned Batman and Superman, but just for the record:
Batman: Excellent - Jack Nicholson as the Joker was fabulous.
Batman Returns:  Liked Michelle Pfieffer as Catwoman, hated Danny Devito as the Penguin
Batman Forever: Barely remember this, only remember not liking it very much and being ticked that they took a really interesting villain (Twoface) and turning him into a farce.  Seems like this was just another Jim Carey movie
Batman and Robin: Godawful! How can a director take that much screen talent and make such a bad movie?
Batman Begins: LOVED IT!  Best movie of the group.  I Can't wait for more.

Superman: Great movie in it's day - seems a bit dated now. (Spiderman stole much of it's structure from this movie)
Superman 2: I liked this movie a lot, despite how ot got created. I have the Richard Donner version, but I haven't watched it yet.
Superman 3: ugh
Superman 4:  Are you kidding?
Superman Returns: This was pretty good. It had it's good and bad parts. Kevin Spacey was excellent.  I think the future sequels could be better than this.

[eytanz]

It wasn't me that mentioned Batman and Superman, but just for the record:
Batman: Excellent - Jack Nicholson as the Joker was fabulous.
Batman Returns:  Liked Michelle Pfieffer as Catwoman, hated Danny Devito as the Penguin
Batman Forever: Barely remember this, only remember not liking it very much and being ticked that they took a really interesting villain (Twoface) and turning him into a farce.  Seems like this was just another Jim Carey movie
Batman and Robin: Godawful! How can a director take that much screen talent and make such a bad movie?
Batman Begins: LOVED IT!  Best movie of the group.  I Can't wait for more.

I agree with every word you wrote above.

Superman: Great movie in it's day - seems a bit dated now. (Spiderman stole much of it's structure from this movie)
Superman 2: I liked this movie a lot, despite how ot got created. I have the Richard Donner version, but I haven't watched it yet.
Superman 3: ugh
Superman 4:  Are you kidding?
Superman Returns: This was pretty good. It had it's good and bad parts. Kevin Spacey was excellent.  I think the future sequels could be better than this.

I haven't seen Superman returns, nor do I have any intention to do so.

I have a soft spot for Superman 4, because I remember being 11, watching it in the theaters, and loving it. My tastes have changed and I find it totally unwatchable now, but it did something right.

[slic]

It wasn't me that mentioned Batman and Superman...

D'oh, that was DKT, sorry.

Batman Begins: LOVED IT!  Best movie of the group.  I Can't wait for more.

=shudder= Well, I guess we can't agree on everything.  I really found it horrible - by the time the Batmobile (what an ugly car) starting driving on rooves, I just checked out mentally.  Ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

[raygunray]

Superman 2: I liked this movie a lot, despite how ot got created. I have the Richard Donner version, but I haven't watched it yet.

Don't. Just Don't. It was cobbled together from screen tests and cutting room floors bits. There is no Paris opening sequence and the Niagra Falls scenes where Clark reveals himself to Lois is a nightmare.  In differnet shots, Ken's glasses frames and hair is different.

[ClintMemo]

It wasn't me that mentioned Batman and Superman...

D'oh, that was DKT, sorry.

Well, I'm not offended.
I hope he's not. 

Batman Begins: LOVED IT!  Best movie of the group.  I Can't wait for more.

=shudder= Well, I guess we can't agree on everything.  I really found it horrible - by the time the Batmobile (what an ugly car) starting driving on rooves, I just checked out mentally.  Ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.
[/quote]
Well, that part was a bit over the top.
Overall, one of the reasons I liked it so much was that Batman is a superhero with no superpowers - just lots of money, training and personality disorders.   This movie did a better job than any other about showing that. Pretty much everything in the movie that batman had was either real or a couple of generations ahead of something that was current.
I also thought Christian Bale was great (along with the rest of the cast).

Side point: want to launch a financially successful franchise? Cast Liam Neison (Batman Begins, Star Wars I, Narnia), but not as the lead (Darkman).

[Thaurismunths]

This only belongs on the fringe of the list, but I still think it's worth a mention even though they're still great movies:
Lord Of The Rings - What they made poor Gimli do makes me cringe to watch. They were obviously committed to making a massive film, they could have left him a little dignity.

[DKT]

It wasn't me that mentioned Batman and Superman...

D'oh, that was DKT, sorry.

Well, I'm not offended.
I hope he's not. 

I'm very offended.  How dare you all!   

Actually, I didn't mention Superman at all but I'm pretty onboard with what Clintmemo said except I didn't really like Superman Returns.  I didn't hate it like some people do, it just left me feeling bored.  Kevin Spacey felt like he was trying too hard to be Gene Hackman which is a bummer because I really like Kevin Spacey.  I haven't seen very much Smallville, but I think in the end I preferred what the freshness of that series (particularly the dude who plays Lex Luthor) to SR.

Batman I liked a lot.
Batman Returns was pretty good but not great.
Batman Forever unforgivably screwed one of the most terrifying/tragic comic book villains of all time Two-Face.
Batman and Robin...I still have never seen because it looked so bad.
Batman Begins I also love, more than any of the other Batman movies (and possibly more than any other superhero movies, except maybe X2.  maybe) because the characters in it were so believable.  Bummer you didn't like it, Slic.  I can understand a car driving on rooftops seems ridiculous but I was so invested in the movie by then, it didn't bother me at all. 

Fun fact about Liam Neeson, btw.  I hadn't thought about that before. 

[ClintMemo]

It wasn't me that mentioned Batman and Superman...

D'oh, that was DKT, sorry.

Well, I'm not offended.
I hope he's not. 

 I haven't seen very much Smallville, but I think in the end I preferred what the freshness of that series (particularly the dude who plays Lex Luthor) to SR.

I've only seen maybe a few episodes of Smallville, but I completely agree with you about the guy who plays Lex Luthor - Michael Rosenbaum. He's the best actor on that show.

another fun fact - Michael Rosenbaum also does the voice of the Flash on Justice League.  In one episode of JL, Flash and Lex Luthor trade bodies.  They kept the same voice actors with the body, so Clancy Brown did Flash in Lex Luthor's body  and Micheal Rosenbaum did Lex Luthor in Flash's body.

Odd to think that the voice of Lex Luthor is the voice of Mr Crabs (Spongebob)

[Leon Kensington]

Pirates of the Caribbean:

1st- AWESOME!

2nd- Ung, I could care less.

3rd-  THAT FRAKING SUCKS!!!

[eytanz]

Pirates of the Caribbean:

1st- AWESOME!

2nd- Ung, I could care less.

3rd-  THAT FRAKING SUCKS!!!

This series is a bit confusing to me as far as my opinion goes. The thing is, I liked 2 and 3. I really did. Not nearly as much as I liked 1, but I had a blast watching them in the cinema.

But - I don't feel they worked very well as sequels to 1. 1 was tightly plotted, with several clever ideas (especially the ending). It had a setting and premise which made the adventures really work on all levels. 2 and 3 sacrificed that for epic confrontations that were cool to watch but meant nothing, and basically were of the "heap more and more on the plate" school of sequel design.

So I agree, in a way. Even though on their own merits 2 and 3 were very enjoyable, turning 1 from a stand-alone into a series wasn't a good idea. It's sort of like Matrix 2 and 3 (though I thought those were considerably worse).

[DKT]

I know I'm in the vast minority here, but I actually prefer Dead Man's Chest to Curse of the Black Pearl.  I enjoyed the third one pretty well, too.  So I'm always surprised when I see people hating on them.  Dead Man's Chest was darker than the first one, so I'm sure that's probably something that I like more about it.  But Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann seemed vastly more complex (and to me, interesting) in the sequels than they were in the original. 

Capt. Jack Sparrow, OTOH, has always been awesome. 

[ClintMemo]

Just to over-analyze Pirates of the Caribbean, I liked 1 the best (by far) and 2 the least.  3 was OK.
Here's why:
The only two characters that were pure joy for me to watch were Jack Sparrow and Barbosa.  The first movie was mostly a split plot with Johnny Depp
carrying every scene in one thread and Geoffry Rush carrying every scene in the other.  In the second movie, it was split between Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom and Geoffry Rush was only in the last 30 seconds. (Orlando Bloom is not Geoffrey Rush). The third movie had Geoffry Rush back, but he was mostly paired with Johnny Depp while the other plot lines had the other cast members.
I predict that when they make POTC 4 (and you know they will), they will go back to having two plot lines - one for Depp and one for Rush - with the two of them meeting in the middle of the movie and then again at the end of the movie.  They even set the plot hook up that way at then end of 3.

[Listener]

Don't. Just Don't. It was cobbled together from screen tests and cutting room floors bits. There is no Paris opening sequence and the Niagra Falls scenes where Clark reveals himself to Lois is a nightmare.  In differnet shots, Ken's glasses frames and hair is different.

As is explained on the DVD, the only way to resurrect that reveal shot was to do it with screen tests.  Personally I think it was funnier than the "oops I fell into the fire" scene, because you really see the transformation from Clark to Superman. 

Stop reading if you haven't seen the Donner cut:

The way he just starts standing up straight and gives Lois that LOOK is just killer.

I felt the Paris opening scene in the Lester version was kind of weak, actually.  It really didn't fit with the rest of the story IMO.

The ending of the Donner version is what killed me, but after you watch it, watch the featurette so you can see WHY they went with that ending.

After having read "The Godfather" (what an amazing book), I really hope someone somewhere unearths a novel of the first two Superman films by Mario Puzo... or they at least release the screenplays, but I always have trouble reading those.  What Puzo could have done with a Superman novel... I shudder to think of just how awesome it would have been.

[Michael]

I am surprised no one has mentioned The Terminator to date.  The first was really an Indie flick, which while filmed on a shoestring budget was really a high concept science fiction film, filmed before Arnold Schwarzenegger was anyone other than a mass of man meat that could easily pass for a robot.  It explored many paradoxes of time travel (like being able to pick your own father) it was excellent.

The second, although introducing stunning special effects, suffered from the fact Arnold had become a "star" and now needed to be the hero rather than the villain.  It was more "big Hollywood" pyrotechnics than high science fiction. Still quite a watchable film.  It also undermined the premise of the first film.

The last was quite truly awful.  IT was awful because the premise negated everything the previous two  had f stood for--The series had been based on the idea of non-determinism, that the future is not pre-determined, is mutable and changeable, and it is yours to choose.  The last film squarely stated that NO that is not the case, it is written and so shall it be--making it all pointless.  Three pointless movies.