Author Topic: Why the change in titles?  (Read 10716 times)

Russell Nash

  • Guest
on: December 10, 2007, 11:42:24 AM
I mentioned the movie The Golden Compass to an Aussie the other day and got rebuked.  "That's just the title of the movie.  The book is Northern Lights"

The truth is the book had two titles.  In North America it's The Golden Compass and in the rest of the English speaking world it's Northern Lights.

What do you guys think when the publishers change the titles of books?  Why do they do it?  How full of shit are they, when they do?



eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6104
Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 11:59:38 AM
As for The golden Compass/Northern Lights, there's a pretty detailed explanation of the double title on the Dark Materials fansite at http://www.bridgetothestars.net/index.php?p=FAQ#4

As a reader, I find title changes irritating because they tend to confuse me when I try to complete a series - I ended up more than once buying two books from Amazon resellers not realizing that it's the same book under different titles. Note that this applies regardless of the reason for the change - from my POV it's just as annoying when a book comes out with a title the author doesn't like and is later published with the author's choice of titles, though my sympathies may lie with the second title in that case.



Jim

  • HP Lovecraft's 275,892nd biggest fan.
  • Matross
  • ****
  • Posts: 189
Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 05:27:14 PM
Decisions like that are made by people whose brains are so thoroughly addled by a lifetime of three-martini-two-lines-of-coke lunches that any attempt at understanding it just brings madness.

My imaginary omnipotent friend is more real that your imaginary omnipotent friend.


DDog

  • Matross
  • ****
  • Posts: 187
    • Twitter
Reply #3 on: December 10, 2007, 09:07:26 PM
Being a North American, I must have read it as The Golden Compass originally, but I also saw copies of Northern Lights. I think in this case it changes the focus of the book from the destination/journey to the boat, if you will.

I was surprised to hear the alethiometer named explicitly several times as A Golden Compass (as opposed to being simply an alethiometer, which is a thing made of gold that's kind of like a compass only it points at Truth instead of North) in the movie. "Golden compass" seemed like a child's name for a mind-bendingly sophisticated philosophical instrument, not an official alias.

As for the general situation, can I have some more examples of books whose titles were changed for different distributions? The only one I can think of is HP and the Philosopher's Stone vs. the Sorcerer's Stone which I thought was a ridiculous change. For a book that is so heavily rooted in alchemy it seems a betrayal to change the title just because American kids are incurious and ill-educated.

Ask a Tranny Podcast
"Watching someone bootstrap themselves into sentience is the most science fiction thing you can do." -wintermute


Mr. Tweedy

  • Lochage
  • *****
  • Posts: 497
  • I am a sloth.
    • Free Mode
Reply #4 on: December 10, 2007, 09:11:42 PM
For consistency?  Each of the three books (Golden Compass, Subtle Knife, Amber Spyglass) is titled after an important artifact introduced in that book.  "Northern Lights" is the oddball.

Hear my very very short story on The Drabblecast!


Czhorat

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 10:11:56 PM
I find it a bit silly, and sometimes suspect it belies a lack of faith in the American public. I'm thinking specifically of Bester's classic The Stars My Destination, originally published in England (if I recall correctly) as Tiger, Tiger. The American title seemed to represent a more positive outlook. The macguffin Harry Potter was after in his first adventure was properly referred to the Philosophers' Stone in Britain, but Americans apparently needed some verbal clue that the book was about sorcerors. Both examples used, in my opinion, inferior new titles, but that shouldn't really effect our enjoyument of thge book overall.

The Word of Nash is the word of Nash and it is Nash's word.


DKT

  • Friendly Neighborhood
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4961
  • PodCastle is my Co-Pilot
    • Psalms & Hymns & Spiritual Noir
Reply #6 on: December 10, 2007, 11:22:28 PM
Then there's Richard K. Morgan's Black Man, published here in the States as Th13teen or something...Grrrr.


wakela

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 779
    • Mr. Wake
Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 02:52:37 AM
So when they released "Memoirs of a Geisha" as "Sayuri" in Japan it's because the Japanese are dumb or uneducated or don't know what a geisha is?  Come on, guys, it's simply marketing.  America is such an enormous market that if a different title can bump sales up by half a percent then it's worth considering.  I haven't read any of the books or seen the movies sited above, but in every case I think the new title is more exciting.  Which is more exciting a philosopher or a sorcerer?  It may be less true to the story, but that's irrelevant.  By the time you have figured that out you already bought the book. 

"Tiger, Tiger" and  "The Northern Lights" tell me nothing about what these books are about.  "The Golden Compass" sounds fantasy-ish.  "The Stars My Destination" sounds sci-fi-ish.



Czhorat

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
Reply #8 on: December 11, 2007, 11:27:35 AM
So we need little hints in the title as to the genre? I suppose it isn't enough that bookstores stock sci-fi with sci-fi, fantasy with fantasy, etc? Tiger, Tiger is a title that, in my opinion, better reflects the tone and themes of the book than the more positive and, to my ear, generic sounding The Stars My Destination. As far as the Harry Potter title is concerned, the Philosopher's Stone was a real imaginary artifact searched for by real alchemists. "Sorceror's Stone" is a bastardized version of that phrase because whoever marketted the book thought that we Americans have the right combination of stupidity, literal-mindedness, and ignorance to think that "Philosopher's Stone" would be a book about a philosopher.

The Word of Nash is the word of Nash and it is Nash's word.


eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6104
Reply #9 on: December 11, 2007, 11:37:01 AM
So we need little hints in the title as to the genre? I suppose it isn't enough that bookstores stock sci-fi with sci-fi, fantasy with fantasy, etc?

Oh, right, because bookstores are so good at classifying stuff. Plus, when I lived in New York I would frequent a lot of different bookstores from the same chain - Barnes and Noble - and nearly everyone had a different classification (for example, some had Horror as a section, others melded it with SF, others put it in the general literature section). And I never saw a US bookstore that seperated SF and Fantasy (I'm sure there are some, I've just never seen them).

I should say that I actually like The Stars My Destination as a title more than Tiger, Tiger - it doesn't seem optimistic to me, so much as an ironic reflection on the story. The Harry Potter title is a travesty, of course, but at least there was some sort of reasoning behind it, insulting and stupid as it may be. Much better than some exec randomly changing a title just to flex their authority.



Tango Alpha Delta

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1752
    • Tad's Happy Funtime
Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 03:40:35 AM
With respect to all of my esteemed UK (and to a lesser extent, Australian) comrades*...

I appreciate your frustration at having ¨your¨ language constantly corrupted by us lowly colonists, but must we constantly lay the blame on the stupidity of the American public?  While I agree it is of a vast and unplumbed depth, with many thermal layers, it really isn´t OUR fault that the marketing majors who end up running publishing companies arbitrarily decide these things for us.  And while it is certainly annoying for ALL of us in the English-speaking world to have different ¨versions¨ of everything from book titles to songs (¨Cum On Feel the Noyze¨) to TV shows (the ¨Office¨, anyone?), the frustration runs both ways.

Case in point: Blues Clues.  My eldest was a toddler when we lived in the Midlands.  She loved Blues Clues.  In America, Steve talks to his friends Shovel and Pail.  In the UK, Kevin talks to his friends Spade and Bucket.  Big deal.  The only thing that bothered me was that the BBC was too cheap to re-shoot the drawing sequences, so that when Kevin (a black man) would draw the clues in his Handy Dandy Notebook, we would see Steve´s very very white hands doing the drawing.

Oh, on a similar note... sorry about sending Barney over there, but you retaliated brilliantly with the Teletubbies.  Same goes for the Wiggles.

My point is that having similar, but unique, cultural backgrounds is not a reason to blather on about how stupid we all are.  Keep in mind that yours is not the only heritage we have.  We have Germans, Scandinavians, Jews, Asians, Africans and numerous other cultures mixed up with ours.  (I mention the Germans first because it seems many of our linguistic differences come from the large numbers of Germans that settled the West and became teachers.)  We don´t all have time to learn about every obscure crevice of English history, and your tirades about some perceived colloquial slight are often our first inkling that we have been given yet another altered version in the first place.

Ponder for a moment the inferiority complex you reveal when you constantly harp on a few minor linguistic and cultural differences:

* We don´t need an extra ¨U¨ in ¨neighbor¨ or ¨favorite¨ -- get over it.
* ¨Hot¨ is not a verb, therefore, things cannot ¨hot up¨.  They can HEAT up, though.
* You will never convince us that ¨aluminium¨ exists -- quit trying.
* Mum works for you, but she´s my MOM.  Don´t talk no smack ´bout my momma.
* Bands that sound exactly like Oasis no longer appeal to us; the same will soon be true of Coldplay.
* While I´m at it, that Spanish resort town is NOT pronounced ¨Eye-BEETH-her¨... it´s Ibiza, dammit!

Okay, okay... now I´m doing it.  I can sympathize with your pain.

But remember, we are all friends, and unlike the French -- who do not speak THE international linqua franca, funnily enough -- we don´t have an ¨Academie d´Anglaise¨ to dicatate what is correct and proper.  And don´t hand me that line about it being ¨The Queen´s English¨... because guess what -- she´s German!


*This post is intended to be read with a playful spirit of fun.  After 3 years serving as the only American on a 24-hour watch floor at a RAF camp in the Midlands, I learned a deep appreciation of sarcasm, and the noble past-time of ¨winding up the Yank¨.  This is my humble tribute to those lessons, and to the miserable bastards ...er, fine lads, that is... who taught me.   ;)

This Wiki Won't Wrangle Itself!

I finally published my book - Tad's Happy Funtime is on Amazon!


eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6104
Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 07:56:28 AM
With respect to all of my esteemed UK (and to a lesser extent, Australian) comrades*...

I appreciate your frustration at having ¨your¨ language constantly corrupted by us lowly colonists, but must we constantly lay the blame on the stupidity of the American public?

I should point out that every person in this thread complaining of the "stupidity" of the American public has been an American. So, while I agree with your point, it doesn't actually apply to this thread.




Tango Alpha Delta

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1752
    • Tad's Happy Funtime
Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 11:48:53 AM
With respect to all of my esteemed UK (and to a lesser extent, Australian) comrades*...

I appreciate your frustration at having ¨your¨ language constantly corrupted by us lowly colonists, but must we constantly lay the blame on the stupidity of the American public?

I should point out that every person in this thread complaining of the "stupidity" of the American public has been an American. So, while I agree with your point, it doesn't actually apply to this thread.



Ouch.  Looks like the inferiority complex is on the other id now, eh?

This Wiki Won't Wrangle Itself!

I finally published my book - Tad's Happy Funtime is on Amazon!


Planish

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 769
  • Fun will now commence.
    • northernelectric.ca
Reply #13 on: December 14, 2007, 05:28:54 AM
Northern Lights - sounds like something dealing with adventures in the Arctic. Plus there almost a dozen titles listed on imdb.com with "northern lights" as all or part of the title.

Tiger Tiger - was probably a perceived conflict with the well-known poem with the same title by William Blake.

I feed The Pod.
("planish" rhymes with "vanish")


eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6104
Reply #14 on: December 14, 2007, 09:17:46 AM
Tiger Tiger - was probably a perceived conflict with the well-known poem with the same title by William Blake.

What sort of perceived conflict? For one, the story makes clear reference to the poem throughout. Part one starts with a quote of the first four lines of the poem.

(And the poem was long out of copyright when the book came out, so that wasn't the issue)



Planish

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 769
  • Fun will now commence.
    • northernelectric.ca
Reply #15 on: December 16, 2007, 05:52:55 AM
Well, imdb.com returns 342 hits when you search for "tiger tiger", even though only two (both TV series) actually use "tiger" twice in the title. It still seems somewhat overused.
"Tiger Tiger Burning Bright" was also a 1962 Broadway play.

I was however thinking more from a Hollywood marketing point of view, with the likelihood of people unconciously associating it with English Lit/Poetry classes (very dry), or an oriental martial arts movie, than with a space opera (woo-hoo!).

I feed The Pod.
("planish" rhymes with "vanish")


wakela

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 779
    • Mr. Wake
Reply #16 on: December 17, 2007, 12:01:38 AM
The cover art would most likely indicate that these books are sff, but certainly the titles don't.  And you have to think like a publisher.  They don't care if someone who has already read the book thinks it's a good title.  They only care if someone who hasn't read the book thinks it's a good title.

Having said that, I loaned my friend a copy of Perdido Street Station.  He looked at the picture of Mievelle on the back and said, "Is this the story of some kid growing up in the barrio?"  The cover of PSS is perfect storm of obfuscation.  Mundane title, artsy and meaningless cover art, funky author name, funky looking author.



eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6104
Reply #17 on: December 17, 2007, 06:20:10 AM
Having said that, I loaned my friend a copy of Perdido Street Station.  He looked at the picture of Mievelle on the back and said, "Is this the story of some kid growing up in the barrio?"  The cover of PSS is perfect storm of obfuscation.  Mundane title, artsy and meaningless cover art, funky author name, funky looking author.

Er, there are at least 5 or 6 different covers for Perdido Street Station, depending on where you live and which edition you have and whether you have a hardcover, trade, or paperback. It's quite silly to talk about "the cover of PSS".



wakela

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 779
    • Mr. Wake
Reply #18 on: December 17, 2007, 11:33:19 PM
Having said that, I loaned my friend a copy of Perdido Street Station.  He looked at the picture of Mievelle on the back and said, "Is this the story of some kid growing up in the barrio?"  The cover of PSS is perfect storm of obfuscation.  Mundane title, artsy and meaningless cover art, funky author name, funky looking author.

Er, there are at least 5 or 6 different covers for Perdido Street Station, depending on where you live and which edition you have and whether you have a hardcover, trade, or paperback. It's quite silly to talk about "the cover of PSS".

This one.  Didn't notice the others in my search result.  Next time I'll do more research.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 01:23:10 PM by Russell Nash »



gelee

  • Lochage
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
  • It's a missile, boy.
Reply #19 on: December 18, 2007, 01:11:14 PM
That's the same copy of PSS that I have.  I didn't get the cover are either.  Fortunately, the cover for The Scar was much better, so I was already familiar with the author.



Listener

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 3186
  • I place things in locations which later elude me.
    • Various and Sundry Items of Interest
Reply #20 on: December 18, 2007, 02:58:07 PM
That's the same copy of PSS that I have.  I didn't get the cover are either.  Fortunately, the cover for The Scar was much better, so I was already familiar with the author.

Above: City of New Crobuzon
Below: Wing, representative of the bird dude Isaac was trying to help, and also of the slake-moths, who could fly.

I think the title of the book was the confusing thing.  Yeah, PSS is central to the story, but as a location, not as a location-character.  If anything, the Spike (government area) was more of a location character, or the blister dome where the cactacae (IIRC) lived.

My cover of PSS just had the city on it.  I think I got the book right after it came out, based on a review in the Science Fiction Book Club.  I don't know where the cover is now; I tend to take the dust jackets off and put them in a box so I don't mess them up or lose them.

"Farts are a hug you can smell." -Wil Wheaton

Blog || Quote Blog ||  Written and Audio Work || Twitter: @listener42