E-book readers

[Russell Nash]

With the release of Amazon's Kindle, I've been thinking about the E-reader thing some more.  Does anyone have an E-Reader?  Has anyone used one?  I keep hearing about electronic ink and how great it looks, but whenever I think of looking for one of these in a store, they don't have it.

[gelee]

I really don't think of myself as a traditionalist, and there are plenty of people on this forum older than me, but I just can't get my head around e-books. 
For me, part of the joy of owning a book is putting it on my bookshelf and looking at the spine, seeing the way it mingles with the other books. There's something about holding it in your hand and feeling the weight, the texture of the cover.  I love ex-library copies.  The old cloth bindings feel the best under your fingers.  I like to examing the cover art, looking for little details, like the one's Scribners always sneaks in.  I can tell what sort of paper was used, and a little about the condition, by flipping through the pages and listening to the sound they make.  Is there anything like the smell you get when you open an old book?  I'm sure someone will think that's gross. 
I guess for me, there's more to a book than the story it contains.

[Darwinist]

I guess for me, there's more to a book than the story it contains.

I would agree with you.  If I'm going to carry around an e-reader I could just as easily carry around a paperback or two.   I love going to used bookstores and hunting for treasures, and if there is a particular book I want I'll grab the oldest edition or the one with the coolest artwork.  I'm running out of space on my bookshelves but I do like to pick up the old hard covers of the classics if I find them.  Uncle Hugo's in Minneapolis has an incredible selection of used sci-fi, especially old hard-covers, many of which are old library books.  They do mail-order from their website also. 

[sirana]

I'd use an ebook-reader in a heartbeat, but 400$??
you gotta be kidding me...

[Russell Nash]

I'd use an ebook-reader in a heartbeat, but 400$??
you gotta be kidding me...

That's my thing. $400???

I like real books and want to have a big collection of hardcovers, but I like the idea of downloading 50 books from project Gütenberg and reading through them before decided what to add to my bookshelf.  It's the same with music.  I have my iPod for on the road or when I'm in and out of different rooms doing errands, but I have my 2 juke box CD players for when I want to crank up my stereo system.  With a good set of speakers I can still hear the difference.

[gelee]

I like real books and want to have a big collection of hardcovers, but I like the idea of downloading 50 books from project Gütenberg and reading through them before decided what to add to my bookshelf.

I get what you're saying.
If I traveled a lot, and I mean a whole lot, I might spring for it, but not at that price.  Publishers will still want to charge you for the download.  Considering that you have to pay out a lot of cash for specialized hardware that doesn't do anything but read e-books, they would have to practicly give the books away for nothing to make it worth my while.  Otherwise, I end up paying more and getting less.  It's not like your typical paperback isn't very portable.

[wakela]

I have hardcover books that I resist reading, because I know that when I chuck them in my bag they are going to get thrashed.  And they're heavy.  Also, when taking a long trip I like to bring a couple of books, but they take up a lot of space.  So I would like to have a e-reader.   Then again, I would rather my hardcover book get thrashed than my expensive e-reader.  Did I remember to make a backup after I received that last order?

Books will always be around.  New technologies rarely completely replace old technologies, but they do change them.  If e-readers become popular what you read on them won't be regular books like we are used to, and paper books will change, too.  I can see e-readers for stuff like magazines.  You could lug around a dozen magazines without thinking about it, and they would update automatically.  Or use a google news-like feature that would only download stories you were interested in.  Also, like podcasts, indy magazines would flourish.  Maybe blogs would become more e-reader friendly.

But $400 is lunacy.

Does anyone know what makes the Amazon reader special?  Consumers have repeatedly demonstrated their dissatisfaction with e-readers.  Why all the hype over this one?

[Russell Nash]

But $400 is lunacy.

Does anyone know what makes the Amazon reader special?  Consumers have repeatedly demonstrated their dissatisfaction with e-readers.  Why all the hype over this one?

Among other things, it has a wireless system so you can buy a book sitting in the wi-fi area at an airport.  It connects directly to Amazon and the books will be discounted to $10.

I was wondering more about E-readers in general.  I was thinking of getting one off of Ebay, but I've never even set my eyes on one before.  Is this eloectronic ink that good??

[FNH]

The good thing about the ebooks is the fact that you can carry 80 books in the space of 1.  Great for going on holiday, or carrying around research works.

The bad thing about the amazon reader is that you would have to pay amazon to load up your own book onto it ( or so I've heard ).

The Sony version allowed you to load up anything. Txt files, PDF's etc.

Imagine Mr Eley going on a plane.  He could probably take his entire slush pile of stories on 1 e-reader.

[Russell Nash]

According to Amazon, their reader can also use other formats like PDF and TXT. 

We all know the basic concept of an E-Reader.  The question still is, has anyone used one?  Is the eye strain really only as bad as a normal book?

[sirana]

According to Amazon, their reader can also use other formats like PDF ...

No, it can't. The kindle doesn't read pdfs, you have to convert them via an amazon server and that does costs you 10 cents per document, which to me sounds simply ridiculous.
it can read txt, though.

[sirana]

same goes for .doc, .html and images like .jpg, .bmp, .gif

and the pdf-conversion is "experimental", whatever that might mean...

[Russell Nash]

According to Amazon, their reader can also use other formats like PDF ...

No, it can't. The kindle doesn't read pdfs, you have to convert them via an amazon server and that does costs you 10 cents per document, which to me sounds simply ridiculous.
it can read txt, though.

I heard about the converter and thought it was a program that came with the reader.  Anyway, I wasn't talking about this reader specifically when I started this thread.  I just used the Kindle , because it's a big ass company making a big move in the E-Reader field.  I'm not willing to pay more than 150€ or so. That means the Kindle never even entered my thoughts.

The question still is, Has anyone used any E-Reader?  They're all using the same E-ink system.  How does it look?

[gelee]

I hate to revive a dead thread, but I'm re-reading "Salem's Lot" by Stephen King, and I'm still reading the foreword.  He says something that made me immediatley think of this thread.
He recalls the first time he read Stoker's "Dracula," and that it was a library book.  His comments speak nicely, I think, to the point I tried to get at in my first post:
"I remember that Stratford Library book clearly and with great affection.  It had that comfortably sprung, lived-in look that library books get; bent page corners, a dab of mustard on page 331, a whif of some reader's after-dinner whiskey on page 468.  Only library books speak with such wordless eloquence of the power good stories hold over us; how good stories abide, unchanged and mutely wise, while we poor humans grow older and slower."
That, I suppose, is why I think no E-book reader, no matter how whiz-bang, will ever supplant old-fashioned paper.

[ajames]

Russell,

My local bookstore has a Sony e-reader on display and I was seriously contemplating buying it.  Yeah, it looks great.  But I did some research, and its definitely not worth the money [IMO].  Unless you have that kind of cash laying around with no use for it, I'd recommend not buying one, mainly because [1] the price will come down appreciably in the not too distant future, [2] compatibility is an issue - all those free pdf files may or may not be convertable to the reader, and the quality of the conversion is an unknown, [3] for the Sony, at least, operating it was counter-intuitive and [4] the Sony did not have a back-lighting feature, which I wanted.  And, it looks great, but it doesn't look any better than a real book.

These were my reasons for not buying one.  I ended up getting a handheld instead - I didn't save any money this way, but I got a lot more for my money.  I use it for work, but also I can easily download and convert pdf books [and other formats, such as docs], I can read at night without turning on a light, and I can write with it [a large part of my first novellette was written on the handheld].  If you just want to read books, a handheld isn't a good buy for your money, but if you have other uses for one, then I'd recommend using that to read your e-books rather than buying an e-reader.

[Russell Nash]

The thing about the display on the e-readers is that it's just like a book.  This means less eye strain than with a PDA or laptop.  Also there's battery life.  With the e-reader you only use energy to "turn" the page.  It will last days or weeks longer than a PDA. 

The price is the big thing.  If I traveled a lot, I might think about it.  I don't have the need to justify anything more than 100€. 

[FNH]

Leo Laport was saying over on Twit that he's been thinking of subscribing on the Amazon device to daily newspapers.

That means no newsagent, and no pulp.

As soon as that price comes down...

[eytanz]

Leo Laport was saying over on Twit that he's been thinking of subscribing on the Amazon device to daily newspapers.

That means no newsagent, and no pulp.

As soon as that price comes down...

Unfortunately, I only read newspapers online anyway, so that's not a motivation for me. And the main advantage of books for me is that, once I'm done reading them, I can put them on my bookshelf and thus they double as decoration for my apartment. So I don't think I'm going to buy an e-book reader anytime soon. One day, once they're cheaper and resolve some of the implementation issues, I will, but not yet.

[Russell Nash]

The whole e-reader thing seems to be shaping up just like the MP-3 players.  Everyone was saying "too expensive" then, BAM, they hit a level where they weren't too expensive and now everyone has then.  It happened in less than a year.  I don't think it will happen that fast, but I do think it will be that decisive.  There is a tipping point and design level, that once reached, will just start a cascade of buyers.

[eytanz]

The whole e-reader thing seems to be shaping up just like the MP-3 players.  Everyone was saying "too expensive" then, BAM, they hit a level where they weren't too expensive and now everyone has then.  It happened in less than a year.  I don't think it will happen that fast, but I do think it will be that decisive.  There is a tipping point and design level, that once reached, will just start a cascade of buyers.

Well, the thing about mp3 players is that - especially in the beginning - they were mostly a way to take stuff you already own with you. With very few exceptions, all the songs on my iPod have been ripped from physical CDs I own. It's just a lot more convenient than a CD player. Get me an e-book reader that would allow me to (easily) scan books I own and take them with me on the road - and I'd buy it in an instant. A device that requires me to build a whole new library - just not as appealing. As I said, I'll get it someday, but it's nowhere near the top of my list.

[Czhorat]

Well, the thing about mp3 players is that - especially in the beginning - they were mostly a way to take stuff you already own with you. With very few exceptions, all the songs on my iPod have been ripped from physical CDs I own. It's just a lot more convenient than a CD player. Get me an e-book reader that would allow me to (easily) scan books I own and take them with me on the road - and I'd buy it in an instant. A device that requires me to build a whole new library - just not as appealing. As I said, I'll get it someday, but it's nowhere near the top of my list.

For me it was the ability to download new content that made owning an MP3 player worthwhile to me. Without the ability to purchase audio books and automatically download some of my favorite free podcasts the iPod is essentially just a fancy walkman. If new books were reasonably discounted, easy to download, and the e-reader was pleasantly functional and reasonably priced I'd be happy to have one.

[ajames]

I hate to revive a dead thread, but I'm re-reading "Salem's Lot" by Stephen King, and I'm still reading the foreword.  He says something that made me immediatley think of this thread.
He recalls the first time he read Stoker's "Dracula," and that it was a library book.  His comments speak nicely, I think, to the point I tried to get at in my first post:
"I remember that Stratford Library book clearly and with great affection.  It had that comfortably sprung, lived-in look that library books get; bent page corners, a dab of mustard on page 331, a whif of some reader's after-dinner whiskey on page 468.  Only library books speak with such wordless eloquence of the power good stories hold over us; how good stories abide, unchanged and mutely wise, while we poor humans grow older and slower."
That, I suppose, is why I think no E-book reader, no matter how whiz-bang, will ever supplant old-fashioned paper.

Along the same lines, I just listened to Heather Zundel's "Cry of the Immortals", a short story about the life and times of a book.  http://www.theclassictales.com/spotlight.shtml

[FNH]

Get me an e-book reader that would allow me to (easily) scan books I own and take them with me on the road - and I'd buy it in an instant. A device that requires me to build a whole new library - just not as appealing. As I said, I'll get it someday, but it's nowhere near the top of my list.

I dont think anyone is going to let you scan their books ( copyright and all that ) but if you find that all of the books you want to buy are suddenly cheaper and more readily available in "e-reader" format, you might well change to be an electronic book reader.

Imagine the next Harry Potter comes out , the book costs $16, e version $2.  For the paper one, you have to go down to the shop, or at best wait days for it to be delivered.  The cheaper e-version is immediately available, read it within minutes of it being released!

It starts to look financially appealing.  Then add in the fact that Project Gutenberg offer you every public domain book for free.  The e-reader thing is starting to look really appealing.  A massive free library, new books instantly!

All it needs is the unit price to come down.

There will always be books, just in tiny little specialist shops for $100's each.

[eytanz]

Get me an e-book reader that would allow me to (easily) scan books I own and take them with me on the road - and I'd buy it in an instant. A device that requires me to build a whole new library - just not as appealing. As I said, I'll get it someday, but it's nowhere near the top of my list.

I dont think anyone is going to let you scan their books ( copyright and all that )

They let me rip my CDs...

(And no, I'm not naive enough to think that's a convincing argument, or that the record industry isn't trying to make CD ripping illegal. But it's how it should be. If I legally own a copy, I shouldn't be required to pay to make a second copy for myself).

but if you find that all of the books you want to buy are suddenly cheaper and more readily available in "e-reader" format, you might well change to be an electronic book reader.

Imagine the next Harry Potter comes out , the book costs $16, e version $2.  For the paper one, you have to go down to the shop, or at best wait days for it to be delivered.  The cheaper e-version is immediately available, read it within minutes of it being released!

Sure, and when that is the actual state of things, I'll get an e-book reader. But I'm not motivated to be an early adopter here.

There will always be books, just in tiny little specialist shops for $100's each.

Not for quite a while. People like tactile things they can own. People still have CD collections even though it's easy and cheap to get digital music. People still buy vinyl record - true, they do have to go to speciality shops, but it's nowhere near $100s to buy one. I'm not saying it won't happen, but don't overestimate the impact of new technology on the old.

[Russell Nash]

There will always be books, just in tiny little specialist shops for $100's each.

Not for quite a while. People like tactile things they can own. People still have CD collections even though it's easy and cheap to get digital music. People still buy vinyl record - true, they do have to go to speciality shops, but it's nowhere near $100s to buy one. I'm not saying it won't happen, but don't overestimate the impact of new technology on the old.

One of the reasons for the CDs is that downloadable music sounds like shit on a decent system and vinyl sounds even better.  I'm just too lazy for vinyl.  The claim of the e-readers is that they look as good as a real book.  I haven't seen one so I'm only going by reports.