Author Topic: Science fiction regarding future human evolution  (Read 31849 times)

CammoBlammo

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on: March 26, 2008, 10:52:21 AM
Hi folks,

In a couple of months I have to turn in a paper regarding the future of human evolution. I'd like to get a range of perspectives, and it occurs to me that there must be some pretty good speculative fiction out there about this topic.

The only thing that comes to mind is HG Wells' The Time Machine. Some fiction uses the idea of human evolution as a hand wavy way to create super heroes (eg the X-Men) but I don't recall seeing much work that treats the subject in a more realistic manner. I'm not that widely read, though, and I imagine there's a lot of good stuff out there.

Any ideas?



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Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 12:49:30 PM
Hi folks,

In a couple of months I have to turn in a paper regarding the future of human evolution. I'd like to get a range of perspectives, and it occurs to me that there must be some pretty good speculative fiction out there about this topic.

The only thing that comes to mind is HG Wells' The Time Machine. Some fiction uses the idea of human evolution as a hand wavy way to create super heroes (eg the X-Men) but I don't recall seeing much work that treats the subject in a more realistic manner. I'm not that widely read, though, and I imagine there's a lot of good stuff out there.

Any ideas?

Not sure how it fits your idea of "realistic" but Philip K. Dick's The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch has people taking "E-therapy" to accelerate their evolution in preparation for the coming "fire age".  Some people don't take well to it, and it actually triggers devolution in them.

No others come to mind at the moment.

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Heradel

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Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 01:28:58 PM
Dick has another one (short story) where 3 astronauts and some lab mice get hit with a cosmic ray that makes them evolve at a terrifically accelerated rate — but I only have the Eye of the Sibyl with me and it's not in there and I can't remember the name.

Only other thing I can think of off the top of my head doesn't fit the 'good' requirement — ST:Voyager's Warp 10.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 10:55:38 PM by Heradel »

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oddpod

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Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 06:59:33 PM
natural human evoluton via natrel selecton has stoped due to the lack of enviromental preshure.
any future evoluton will be self inflikted :)

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Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 07:11:37 PM
natural human evoluton via natrel selecton has stoped due to the lack of enviromental preshure.
any future evoluton will be self inflikted :)

I've actually heard about this from several different sources.  Through technology and medicine we've removed ourselves from natural selection.  If you take it a step further, you can see that we're in a reverse Darwinism, because we're breeding medical problems back into the species instead of removing them.



oddpod

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Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 07:30:49 PM
yup
are caring atitude to the weaker members of are sosiaty is sending us in to a genetic nose dive, what we reeeealy nead is a huge globel desaster, like maby a zombie apocolips(see http://forum.escapeartists.info/index.php?topic=20.0 )to cut down the "chaf" a bit . ether that or a good preditor
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 07:33:00 PM by oddpod »

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Russell Nash

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Reply #6 on: March 26, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
yup
are caring atitude to the weaker members of are sosiaty is sending us in to a genetic nose dive, what we reeeealy nead is a huge globel desaster, like maby a zombie apocolips(see http://forum.escapeartists.info/index.php?topic=20.0 )to cut down the "chaf" a bit . ether that or a good preditor

A zombie apocolypse is the same as hunting.  It limits the numbers, but it doesn't really get the weak and sick as well as regular predators.



Heradel

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Reply #7 on: March 26, 2008, 09:24:45 PM
yup
are caring atitude to the weaker members of are sosiaty is sending us in to a genetic nose dive, what we reeeealy nead is a huge globel desaster, like maby a zombie apocolips(see http://forum.escapeartists.info/index.php?topic=20.0 )to cut down the "chaf" a bit . ether that or a good preditor

I'd argue that this is still theoretical for all but >5% of the world's population. You have to be rich enough, insured enough, and have access to good health care. And even then, I think it's just changing the evolutionary prerogative away from Survival to something like Beauty/Brains/Skill. If intelligence is an accident of evolution, perhaps the function of intelligence is to become the motive cause for continued evolution.

Granted, there have been theorists that the human race ends up splitting on those lines of smart/beautiful and not, and if we do I think we end up with Star Trek and Idiocracy.

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CammoBlammo

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Reply #8 on: March 26, 2008, 10:50:37 PM
yup
are caring atitude to the weaker members of are sosiaty is sending us in to a genetic nose dive, what we reeeealy nead is a huge globel desaster, like maby a zombie apocolips(see http://forum.escapeartists.info/index.php?topic=20.0 )to cut down the "chaf" a bit . ether that or a good preditor

I'd argue that this is still theoretical for all but >5% of the world's population. You have to be rich enough, insured enough, and have access to good health care. And even then, I think it's just changing the evolutionary prerogative away from Survival to something like Beauty/Brains/Skill. If intelligence is an accident of evolution, perhaps the function of intelligence is to become the motive cause for continued evolution.

Granted, there have been theorists that the human race ends up splitting on those lines of smart/beautiful and not, and if we do I think we end up with Star Trek and Idiocracy.

This is more or less Wells' interpretation in The Time Machine, but I have to actually read it to make sure. In that book (AIUI) there are two post-human species, descended from the soft upper class and the ugly, brutish lower class. If our society were cut off from the rest of humanity, and the two classes were prevented from interbreeding, this is a good vision of what our distant future could hold.

I think it's important to note that we are still evolving, and there are selective pressures on our gene pool. However, there are a lot of things going on that have made the process a little more interesting from a spectator's perspective. For example, we are now able to share our genes with people all over the planet. It is much harder to isolate a gene pool to any one geographical location. Even if you can't leave your village, I can visit it. This means that the rate of change will be much lower over the foreseeable future.

As others have noted, the nature of the selective pressures have changed. We can survive in an incredible range of environmental conditions because our intelligence and social ability have helped us find ways to circumvent the obvious problems. To put it differently, we are capable of taking suitable conditions into places where we ordinarily couldn't survive.

Finally, we are beginning to be able to shape the way in which we evolve. We've been able to do this to a degree for a few thousand years --- we've been able to breed desirable qualities into our animals and crops. We've also been able to do it with humans, although the lifespan of a human makes the experiment much harder. Now we are able to directly manipulate the genes of specific people and it won't be long before these changes are propagated into wider society.

I'm going to look up the Dick novels (although I have trouble getting Isaac frickin' Asimov in our town library!) and have a read.

Any other ideas?



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Reply #9 on: March 27, 2008, 04:00:46 AM
I recently read an article that stated that humanity was actually genetically changing (ie, evolving) at a faster rate now than ever before.  That study being for humanity as a whole, not focused on the richest 5% mentioned above. 

As for fiction, every future story involving natural human evolution I've seen has been hogwash.  We'll all evolve to have big, pulsing brains.  Yah, right.  Because those with mearly human intelligence are going to die before they breed - why?  They generally make the assumption that evolution will keep doing what it's been doing... that where we've changed from apes will keep getting more and more pronounced.  And that's just not the way it works, folks.

As for artificial selection, there are some good stories.  See Gattaca.



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Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 04:46:29 AM
I recently read an article that stated that humanity was actually genetically changing (ie, evolving) at a faster rate now than ever before.  That study being for humanity as a whole, not focused on the richest 5% mentioned above. 

The >5% thing was me pointing out that the group that uses medicine to overcome genetic deficiencies to the point where they can breed. And let me say that I really, really, really believe that that is one of the best things that medicine has done and can do, and that genetic engineering when it comes to fixing those problems is something that needs to come as soon as possible. The improvement I'm ambivalent about.

I read that article too, just didn't think of it when I was responding (I was tapping it out during a break in one of my classes). I agree also with what Cammo was saying about the pressures changing, which was what I was trying to get out in too few lines.

And I would say Idiocracy (linked above) is a pretty damn good example of things going tits-up evolution wise.

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Reply #11 on: March 28, 2008, 06:17:43 AM
See Last and First Men: A Story of the Near and Far Future by Olaf Stapledon, in 1930.

Text is at http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0601101h.html

A piece of the author's preface:
Quote
[snip]
Some readers, taking my story to be an attempt at prophecy, may deem it unwarrantably pessimistic. But it is not prophecy; it is myth, or an essay in myth. We all desire the future to turn out more happily than I have figured it. In particular we desire our present civilization to advance steadily toward some kind of Utopia. The thought that it may decay and collapse, and that all its spiritual treasure may be lost irrevocably, is repugnant to us. Yet this must be faced as at least a possibility. And this kind of tragedy, the tragedy of a race, must, I think, be admitted in any adequate myth.

And so, while gladly recognizing that in our time there are strong seeds of hope as well as of despair, I have imagined for aesthetic purposes that our race will destroy itself. There is today a very earnest movement for peace and international unity; and surely with good fortune and intelligent management it may triumph. Most earnestly we must hope that it will. But I have figured things out in this book in such a manner that this great movement fails. I suppose it incapable of preventing a succession of national wars; and I permit it only to achieve the goal of unity and peace after the mentality of the race has been undermined. May this not happen! May the League of Nations, or some more strictly cosmopolitan authority, win through before it is too late! Yet let us find room in our minds and in our hearts for the thought that the whole enterprise of our race may be after all but a minor and unsuccessful episode in a vaster drama, which also perhaps may be tragic.

Any attempt to conceive such a drama must take into account whatever contemporary science has to say about man's own nature and his physical environment. I have tried to supplement my own slight knowledge of natural science by pestering my scientific friends. In particular, I have been very greatly helped by conversation with Professors P. G. H. Boswell, J. Johnstone, and J. Rice, of Liverpool. But they must not be held responsible for the many deliberate extravagances which, though they serve a purpose in the design, may jar upon the scientific ear.[/snip]

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Reply #12 on: March 28, 2008, 01:00:56 PM
The >5% thing was me pointing out that the group that uses medicine to overcome genetic deficiencies to the point where they can breed. And let me say that I really, really, really believe that that is one of the best things that medicine has done and can do, and that genetic engineering when it comes to fixing those problems is something that needs to come as soon as possible. The improvement I'm ambivalent about.

I have trouble seeing it as a Good Thing (tm).  I think I've held this attitude ever since Bobbi McCaughey said that her septuplets were "a gift from God".  No you stupid cow, "God" made you infertile.  Those children are a work of science.

BTW anybody notice we haven't heard anything about the Iowa Septs in some time?  Used to be the media would go ga-ga every year on their birthday.

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Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 02:13:43 PM
I have trouble seeing it as a Good Thing (tm).  I think I've held this attitude ever since Bobbi McCaughey said that her septuplets were "a gift from God".  No you stupid cow, "God" made you infertile.  Those children are a work of science.
I can't say this with any certainty about her true sentiments in the statement, but, being a parent, I don't think she was talking about the births as much as the spirit and nature of each child. Only my 2¢. But it's pretty much pointless to argue it unless you've been a parent. It's just like love or your first kiss or seeing color: you can't truly understand it unless you've experienced it.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 02:16:52 PM by birdless »



Russell Nash

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Reply #14 on: March 29, 2008, 07:09:08 PM
I have trouble seeing it as a Good Thing (tm).  I think I've held this attitude ever since Bobbi McCaughey said that her septuplets were "a gift from God".  No you stupid cow, "God" made you infertile.  Those children are a work of science.
I can't say this with any certainty about her true sentiments in the statement, but, being a parent, I don't think she was talking about the births as much as the spirit and nature of each child. Only my 2¢. But it's pretty much pointless to argue it unless you've been a parent. It's just like love or your first kiss or seeing color: you can't truly understand it unless you've experienced it.

I'm the parent of two gifts from Nature's Dirty Trick (commonly referred to as the animal sex drive).  I side with StePH on this one.



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Reply #15 on: March 31, 2008, 01:48:21 PM
I have trouble seeing it as a Good Thing (tm).  I think I've held this attitude ever since Bobbi McCaughey said that her septuplets were "a gift from God".  No you stupid cow, "God" made you infertile.  Those children are a work of science.
I can't say this with any certainty about her true sentiments in the statement, but, being a parent, I don't think she was talking about the births as much as the spirit and nature of each child. Only my 2¢. But it's pretty much pointless to argue it unless you've been a parent. It's just like love or your first kiss or seeing color: you can't truly understand it unless you've experienced it.

I'm the parent of two gifts from Nature's Dirty Trick (commonly referred to as the animal sex drive).  I side with StePH on this one.

I guess that's just further makes me a TCoRN pagan.  ;) I won't get into the question of why you think her infertility was God's fault.



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Reply #16 on: March 31, 2008, 02:19:29 PM
I was speaking more of Medicine's ability to preserve life already in fact, not create life where barriers have prevented it. Personally I think there are enough kids up for adoption, but I can't really argue that people don't have some sort of right to propagate their DNA.

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Reply #17 on: March 31, 2008, 04:38:44 PM
In looking at a typical 1st world society one would not expect to find much natural selection. Natural selection would suggest that a populations gene frequency would adjust to fit more favorably with a new environment or niche.  Given the K-selected (put more resources into fewer offspring vs less resources into many offspring, typically results in longer living, larger creatures) nature of humans many of us in the 1st world will not grow up in a society like our parents.  We have gotten to a point that technology is changing our environments far faster than natural selection would enable, so rather than having genes react to our environments and selecting out those genes that do not give the individual a chance of creating progeny, we find ways to adapt the tasks to our own code.

I would imagine that no story would really give an accurate picture of any feasible "naturally" selected evolutionary model for the next step of humans.  The greatest environmental pressure that humans in America are facing at the moment is the overabundance of Calories leading to obesity.  If this is a selecting factor at the moment, it is probably more likely that we would develop healthier food that actually tastes good before we become better suited to metabolize the garbage we eat today.

As it was mentioned before Gattaca is a more realistic look at where we might be heading. For a truly horrifying tale of "science fiction" look into the eugenics movement of the early 20th century.  Galton and Davenport took their racist views and covered it in a paper mask of science.

Evolution is cool enough on its own, it doesn't need science fiction.



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Reply #18 on: May 02, 2008, 01:13:05 PM
I'm a little late chiming in on this one, but...

Stephen Baxter, in the Destiny's Children trilogy, talks about the future of human evolution.  He makes the frightening point that brains are expensive, and in an environment where they aren't needed we might lose them.

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Reply #19 on: May 02, 2008, 03:58:28 PM
You could have a look at Banner of Souls by Liz Williams. The physical evolution is artificially manipulated, but due to social evolution which brought about a change in attitudes.

Alas it's an incredibly dreary book, but the ideas are good.

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Reply #20 on: May 02, 2008, 06:46:08 PM
Just a though - the rise of genetic screening could lead to voluntary selection against genetic faults if people with certain diseases (e.g. Huntington's) choose to adopt rather than have children.

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Reply #21 on: May 02, 2008, 07:12:24 PM
True. But I'm willing to bet it's a long time before the majority of the world's population has access to such screening.

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Reply #22 on: May 03, 2008, 05:24:37 AM

I think we're still subject to "selection pressure," it's just not "natural."  Or at least, less "natural" in the sense that we're adapting to an environment we ourselves create.  As Marshall McLuhan is credited with saying, “We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us.”

The pressure to survive Northern Hemisphere epidemic diseases has been greatly reduced since the widespread use of vaccination in rich-world countries, but in those same areas, the selection pressure for the frame of mind that can adapt to agricultural, industrial and post-industrial work habits is stronger than ever.  Though if that part of civilization will continue to look like it does long enough to make a difference in evolutionary terms remains to be seen.

Getting back to the original question, Radix by A. A. Attanasio uses evolution of the human brain as part of its background.  Unlike many such depictions, it isn't a spectacular change, and it's helped along by artificial means. However, evolution is not the major point of the story, which deals with other things.

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Reply #23 on: May 04, 2008, 04:40:51 AM
Stephen Baxter, in the Destiny's Children trilogy, talks about the future of human evolution.  He makes the frightening point that brains are expensive, and in an environment where they aren't needed we might lose them.

Baxter also wrote another novel, Evolution (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_%28Stephen_Baxter%29), which follows the course of humanity from 65 million years ago through the present (modern humans) and for another half-billion years.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 11:00:38 AM by AarrowOM »

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Reply #24 on: May 04, 2008, 05:27:54 AM
Baxter also wrote another novel, Evolution (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_%28Stephen_Baxter%29), which follows the course of humanity from 65 million years ago through the present (modern humans) and for another half-billion years.

That's such an obvious plagiarism of Scott Sigler's novel Descendant that it isn't even funny.







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