Author Topic: PC Review 1: Unseen Academicals  (Read 8203 times)

Heradel

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on: March 06, 2010, 03:17:03 PM
PodCastle Review 1: Unseen Academicals

Unseen Academicals by Terry Pratchett
Reviewed by Bill Peters

PodCastle’s very first review!

It is remarkably hard to review Unseen Academicals, what Terry Pratchett says will likely be his penultimate work. Most people who’ve read Pratchett and liked it have gotten attached to him in a way they don’t to other authors. Part of this is certainly due to the regular and breakneck pace at which he writes, averaging at least one book a year since the first Discworld novel was published in 1983, twenty five years ago. The other part is that many of us would like to live in his world, and we know it will soon be robbed from us.

Minor Spoilers Ensue! (Don’t worry - we don’t tell you how it ends or anything!)

[Mod note: Obviously it's not me moderating this one]
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 12:24:44 AM by Heradel »

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Yargling

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Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 12:09:15 AM
Yeah... I have to admit, it wasn't his best. And I'm sad to hear it's likely to be his penultimate work - though I knew the end of Discworld was coming, I hadn't realised it would be quite so soon. The sad part is its likely that the last novel will be much better, given the affects of Mr Pratchett's condition are only likely to increase. It reinforces the sad case of whats happening to him... I know its horrible for him, but I can't stop thinking 'no more Discworld'.



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Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 05:01:17 PM
Spoilers, obviously.

I just started reading this for the second time.

I think my biggest problem with the book isn't any of the stuff that Bill mentioned in the review, but was the fact that Pratchett KNOWS he's not got a lot of time left to write these books so he's cramming in everything he wants to talk about in this one. Sports, another Wizards story, orcs, Vetinari/Margolotta, the fashion world, office/corporate politics, all of it in one 350-page novel that I enjoyed, though I agree it wasn't his best.

When we didn't get to the fashion part until page 125, that's when I realized this book wasn't going to be as amazing as the others.

All that said, I just got to the part where Ponder Stibbons explains the succession part if Dead Men's Pointy Shoes doesn't happen, which basically sets up Ponder to be the next Archchancellor. And I was quite unhappy that they didn't use the Bursar more, but then I guess that's what Ponder's there for. I agree that Vetinari was FAR too loquacious in the middle of the book, basically acting as Captain Exposition. And the thing in the beginning where the urn shows up out of nowhere? Ermm... huh? I don't remember understanding that the first time around.

Trev Likely is yet another one of Pratchett's great characters, acted upon by the world and rising up to meet the challenge. Glenda is yet another strong woman who's far smarter than the ostensibly-smarter-than-her men for whom she works. Nutt is another Captain Carrot. Constable Haddock reminds me somewhat of Angua once she settled into policing. Dr Hix is the same joke over and over again.

Back in "Moving Pictures", when Ridcully was introduced, I remember them calling him "Ridcully the Brown". Then, later it was announced that he WAS a "Rowing Brown", indicating that the UU team mascot was the Brown. Now he's talking about how he (and I think the Dean, who will ALWAYS be the Dean) "got a Brown". A little confusing, but over 27 years even non-medically-affected human memory can't be expected to be perfect.

So... wrapping up Discworld, huh? I almost wish he could name a successor -- a writer to whom he says "I want you to go on writing these books, but only if you want to, and as long as I'm capable, I will answer questions and help out". I guess the big question is now: what's going to happen in the final book? Pratchett's going to have to do something pretty damn big to close out a series that we've all loved so much. My money's on terrorism -- someone flies a dirigible into the Tower of Art or blows up a train on the Undertaking. It would give us the Watch, Vetinari, the Guilds, Klatch or Fourecks or the Empire or Uberwald, the Wizards, the new guard (Moist and co.), and maybe even Granny Weatherwax. And of course Death and Susan will have to come back. Anyway, either that or personal computers -- he's already teased us with the Gooseberry; why not mobile or home versions of Hex? Also, I think the last book will be the end of Ridcully.

These are my thoughts. You may have others.

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Gamercow

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Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 05:11:16 PM
So... wrapping up Discworld, huh? I almost wish he could name a successor -- a writer to whom he says "I want you to go on writing these books, but only if you want to, and as long as I'm capable, I will answer questions and help out".

Yes, because this worked so well for Herbert and Tolkien.  Sorry if that was flippant, and maybe it would be different with direct guidance from the original author, but sometimes things just need to end gracefully.

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Listener

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Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 05:14:48 PM
So... wrapping up Discworld, huh? I almost wish he could name a successor -- a writer to whom he says "I want you to go on writing these books, but only if you want to, and as long as I'm capable, I will answer questions and help out".

Yes, because this worked so well for Herbert and Tolkien.  Sorry if that was flippant, and maybe it would be different with direct guidance from the original author, but sometimes things just need to end gracefully.

I see your point. I haven't read any Dune books except for the original six, myself, and only the LOTR trilogy from Tolkien. The Bond continuation novels seem to be working out not too terribly, though... :)

If the last book is a good ending, then let it be a good ending. But if it leaves me wanting more, I'm going to want more.

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eytanz

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Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 06:13:38 PM
What would count as a "good ending" for the Discworld? The whole greatness of Pratchett's creation is that he created a big, living and breathing world, full of stories, and then accompanied it through a series of social changes. It is not an epic tale, which can be concluded neatly. It's a history, and just like the history of our own world, it will not be concluded, just continued, barring apocalyptic annihilation or something like that, but that would hardly be a satisfying ending to the series (or to our world).

I don't expect an "ending" to the discworld, but I would hate for it to be continued after Pratchett's final novel. It's not like there are loose threads or mysteries that need resolving in the discworld, either. The beauty of his world is that you can pick up any book and just read it on its own, or see it as part of a bigger context, and the context will always extend beyond the books. No finite amount of books could do the discworld justice, but on the flipside, all finite amount of books will do an equally good job. I'd be content to leave it whereever Pratchett does, and I will most definitely not be purchasing any sequels written by anyone else, not even if authorised, or if it's an author I otherwise like.



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Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 07:43:47 PM
What would count as a "good ending" for the Discworld? The whole greatness of Pratchett's creation is that he created a big, living and breathing world, full of stories, and then accompanied it through a series of social changes. It is not an epic tale, which can be concluded neatly. It's a history, and just like the history of our own world, it will not be concluded, just continued, barring apocalyptic annihilation or something like that, but that would hardly be a satisfying ending to the series (or to our world).

I agree there should still be some mysteries, but I want a satisfying finale. I want the major characters to reach a closure point where we know they're going to go on (unless they die, obviously, but on the Discworld who knows..?). I don't want new threads to be tugged out. If Vetinari dies, fine. But if there's an election, and we don't know who wins, and then the book ends... well, that would be unfair. I don't think Pratchett would do something like that -- he's never done it, as far as I can remember -- but I'd much rather know what happens than have to decide if a character chose the lady or the tiger.

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Heradel

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Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 08:31:35 PM
What would count as a "good ending" for the Discworld? The whole greatness of Pratchett's creation is that he created a big, living and breathing world, full of stories, and then accompanied it through a series of social changes. It is not an epic tale, which can be concluded neatly. It's a history, and just like the history of our own world, it will not be concluded, just continued, barring apocalyptic annihilation or something like that, but that would hardly be a satisfying ending to the series (or to our world).

I agree there should still be some mysteries, but I want a satisfying finale. I want the major characters to reach a closure point where we know they're going to go on (unless they die, obviously, but on the Discworld who knows..?). I don't want new threads to be tugged out. If Vetinari dies, fine. But if there's an election, and we don't know who wins, and then the book ends... well, that would be unfair. I don't think Pratchett would do something like that -- he's never done it, as far as I can remember -- but I'd much rather know what happens than have to decide if a character chose the lady or the tiger.

I'm with Eytanz here. Discworld has had storylines that go from one novel to the next, and sometimes ones that are referenced in other books (eg, the Newspaper, Colon and Nobby), but there's never really been an overriding plot to the universe, and I don't think it needs a capstone for a final book. The series is really more of a web than anything else, and whatever the final book looks like I hope it's just another good tale of Discworld rather than some attempt for a proper kind of ending. We've already gotten those here and there, and forcing a final one would backfire.

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Yargling

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Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 02:53:23 PM
Really, this is the end of the Discworld we know and love. We have to let it go, sadly. I guess we all knew it would have to end one day, and its sad that Terry is going to let us in such a manner. Maybe someone will try and take over, but I doubt they could do his style... Maybe it'll be as good... probably won't, but I'll give'm a chance. Either way, Terry's Discworld ends with his last novel. Someone else's Discworld may rise in the place though.

We can only wait and see, I guess.



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Reply #9 on: March 09, 2010, 09:44:04 PM
Someone else's Discworld may rise in the place though.

Well, Sean McMullen's "Moonworlds" started out as what one might call "rollicking" fantasy novels, but the third one was basically like this:

Voidfarer : War of the Worlds :: Hogfather: Christmas

I'm not saying McMullen should take up Pratchett's mantle, but it's a thought as to a possible "well, Discworld is over, but here's a new fantasy world".

Unfortunately, I think authors like Pratchett come along once in forever.

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Unblinking

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Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 02:49:36 PM
I'm very sad that there will be no more new Discworld stories, though I will always have the old ones to read, most of which are sitting on my shelf.  I've read all of them up to about the year 2000.  And Alzheimer's is one of the things that scares me the most in this world, so that always strikes a chord as well.



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Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 10:02:03 PM
I think the reviewer missed the entire point of this novel.  It is not a satirical novel about football but a character building story wrapped around Nutt and Glenda.  The ideas of self worth, family and belonging I feel are the main focus in this story with football added as a funny side journey.  Cries of viva la ork spill from my lips.  Way to go Mr. Pratchett another fine novel I'll be quoting to my friends entill the next one.

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Loz

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Reply #12 on: March 14, 2010, 07:50:41 AM
I thought this was possibly one of the best books Mr Pratchett has written in a long while, not necessarily the best of the series but right up there. I'm not going to check, but I wonder if the lack of love here is something to do with the fact that, when reading it, it seemed to be the most consciously English book that Mr Pratchett has written, I'm not a football fan but it did stir cultural memories from my parents and grandparents era about the pre-professional days. Does this perhaps not quite translate outside the UK?

I also have no complaints about the role of Vetinari in this. The period I got concerned was around the time of Jingo, when he was dressing up as a woman and going on jolly japes with the City Watch. Thankfully Mr Pratchett has reined him back from that and transformed him back into the cold, calculating and not necessarily nice tyrant we've always known. Similarly, by The Last Continent  the faculty of Unseen University had tipped too far beyond funny and were just a collection of characters that reminisced about how things were better when they were young. This was the first story in I don't know how long where they were rounded out and made more three dimensional, Ridcully doesn't just shout until he gets his way, Stibbons isn't just fate's buttmonkey. The fact that Ridcully is shown to be smart enough to recognise he's being manipulated by the Patrician but not to work out a way to avoid it, (except when Vetinari wants him to think he has) is always one of those great bits of comedy.

I think it would be fair to say that some of the characters created for this book are fairly stock, but Mr Pratchett does work hard to try and disguise that. With Trev Likely my biggest complaint would be about the whole issue of how he promised his Mum he wouldn't play football, when it's blindingly obvious from his first appearance that he's going to be in the team. Now, when Mr Pratchett used this trope in Thud!, where Vimes goes berserk and attacks the dwarves at the end of the book while screaming the words of Is This My Cow? because it has to be read, it's really powerful and heartfelt. When Trev is anguished about his promise, it doesn't really work in the same way. There is also the slightly odd matter of him being able to do literally impossible things with a tin can but which aren't magic. I might have missed something here but these just seems odd and is never explained. Great footballers can do amazing things with footballs, does the Discworld really need a footballer who can do impossible things? Mr Pratchett makes too much, via Glenda, of how thick Juliet is, perhaps this is a comment on supermodels in the real world but it seems rather cruel. You don't need intelligence for loyalty and Juliet is loyal to her friends in the book, but it does seem that she needs someone to do the thinking for her, be it Glenda or Trev.

Mr Nutt is a wonderful character. The slowly unfolding mystery of what and who he is is very well done, as we are placed with Trev and Glenda and not knowing anything, while there are others like Vetinari and Ridcully, mostly operating on other plot strands but occasionally popping into this strand to make it clear that they know what he is. The section where he runs away, about three-quarters of the way through the book, seems odd and rather unnecessary and just a means to fill thirty or forty pages that no-one would notice if they weren't there but he is a character who's travails I think we do feel more keenly than those of Trev.

So yes, I liked it really. For me it works as a coherent world which runs by it's own logic and doesn't have to surrender any of this in order to fit the jokes in. Whether having a bedrock of thirty other books in this universe makes it easier or harder for Mr Pratchett to write his stories I don't know. I'm sad if it's ending, I hope Mr Pratchett doesn't go for Ragnarok in his last book, that seems somewhat unlikely and I hope there's no handing over of the reins to anyone else to write more stories, though if he or his family were to take the Douglas Adams route I will treat them as I do Eoin Colfer and ignore the expensive fan fiction.



stePH

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Reply #13 on: March 14, 2010, 02:25:38 PM
I thought this was possibly one of the best books Mr Pratchett has written in a long while, not necessarily the best of the series but right up there. I'm not going to check, but I wonder if the lack of love here is something to do with the fact that, when reading it, it seemed to be the most consciously English book that Mr Pratchett has written, I'm not a football fan but it did stir cultural memories from my parents and grandparents era about the pre-professional days. Does this perhaps not quite translate outside the UK?

A few months back I watched the George Clooney movie Leatherheads, about USAian football's pre-professional days when the sport apparently got no respect.  But I haven't read Unseen Academicals so I can't really make any comparisons.  Also sports are generally not a topic of interest to me.

I think it would be fair to say that some of the characters created for this book are fairly stock, but Mr Pratchett does work hard to try and disguise that. With Trev Likely my biggest complaint would be about the whole issue of how he promised his Mum he wouldn't play football, when it's blindingly obvious from his first appearance that he's going to be in the team.

I didn't care for this story when it was Adam Sandler promising his mom Kathy Bates in The Waterboy.  I trust that Pratchett does better?

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Loz

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Reply #14 on: March 15, 2010, 08:39:36 AM
Not having seen that film I can't comment.



stePH

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Reply #15 on: March 15, 2010, 10:33:47 PM
Not having seen that film I can't comment.

Keep it that way.  You've missed nothing.  Henry Winkler dropping his pants to show a tattoo of Roy Orbison on his butt cheek was the best part.

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Reply #16 on: March 22, 2010, 02:38:05 AM
Greetings, Pratchett fans. 

I think Sir Terry said a few things relevant to this discussion when he spoke at the North American Discworld Convention in September '09.  First, his ailment has had primarily physical effects on him, so he's still thinking and working.  Second, he's not authorizing anyone to continue writing Discworld books without him.  Third, he's working on the final Tiffany Aching book, called something like "I Shall Wear Midnight."  He did NOT say at the Con that Midnight would be his last book.  But if it were to be his last book, folks looking for any kind of Ankh Morpork round-up would likely be disappointed, because Tiffany's world has not intersected with the City.  I wonder if folks on this list have more recent info to believe that he has abandoned work on, for example, the third Moist von Lipwig book, Raising Taxes. 

Although there are things about Unseen Academicals that I like, I agree with the reviewer that the book didn't live up to the highest hopes created by, e.g., Making Money.  On the other hand, I remember not completely loving Thud! the first time I read it, and now I think that book is beyond brilliant.  So maybe this one will grow on me, too. 

Best wishes to Pratchett appreciators.



Heradel

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Reply #17 on: March 22, 2010, 03:09:42 AM
Third, he's working on the final Tiffany Aching book, called something like "I Shall Wear Midnight."  He did NOT say at the Con that Midnight would be his last book.  But if it were to be his last book, folks looking for any kind of Ankh Morpork round-up would likely be disappointed, because Tiffany's world has not intersected with the City.  I wonder if folks on this list have more recent info to believe that he has abandoned work on, for example, the third Moist von Lipwig book, Raising Taxes. 

As far as I know, only 'I Shall Wear Midnight' has been confirmed as coming out. In my own defense, the review text I was reading off says it would likely be his penultimate work, and I would eagerly await any further books.

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