EP249: Little M@tch Girl

[eytanz]

In my childhood, I was always sure "etiquette" is pronounced "eh-tick-wi-tee".

But my most embarassing mistaken pronunciation was the word "gratuitous", which until my late twenties I thought was pronounced "gratitious" (rhymes with fictitious). It's embarassing both because it lasted very long, because it is also based on a misspelling, and because I only discoverd I was wrong when I used it in a sentence and was greeted by several very blank stares.

[CryptoMe]

Mine was "maniacal"

I mean, who uses maniacal in a sentence? Okay, I did once in high school and pronounced it "may-knee-ac-al" (as in "maniac" + "al") instead of "man-eye-ac-al". A very kindly english teacher gently corrected me.

[davedoty]

I used to think that Rogue from the X-Men was named "Rouge."  Anyone who knows what her appearance was like when she first joined the team can realize what a misnomer that would have been.

[stePH]

For me it was "misled", which I pronounced as "MY-zull'd", where Y = EYE....

Of course, I was like 8 at the time.

My college music theory teacher confessed to reading that word just the same way when he was first learning English (I believe his native language was German).

BTW I saw your avatar dog in a commercial on teevee tonight 

[Listener]

For me it was "misled", which I pronounced as "MY-zull'd", where Y = EYE....

Of course, I was like 8 at the time.

My college music theory teacher confessed to reading that word just the same way when he was first learning English (I believe his native language was German).

BTW I saw your avatar dog in a commercial on teevee tonight 

I pulled it as a screencap out of that commercial when it crossed my desk while I was working at The Weather Channel. I just couldn't resist.

[Kaa]

I pulled it as a screencap out of that commercial when it crossed my desk while I was working at The Weather Channel. I just couldn't resist.

That image is one of the (probably) most unintentionally creepy things ever.

[ceruleangrave]

While I did enjoy this story, I wanted more from it. At the end I was left feeling like there were chunks of the story that had been left out. What's going to happen to Em's mother and father now? What about Em herself? What was the point of the entire short episode?

[Listener]

I pulled it as a screencap out of that commercial when it crossed my desk while I was working at The Weather Channel. I just couldn't resist.

That image is one of the (probably) most unintentionally creepy things ever.

Be glad I'm not using the avatar I use on the Fantasy Football Guys forum. It's not creepy, but it will make most male members of the forums cringe. 

[CryptoMe]

You know, I've been kinda spoiled by the Flash Fiction Contest.
I keep waiting for the authors to to drop in and tell us what they were really thinking... 

[Talia]

Considering how picky forumites are about stories, I'm almost glad most authors stay away. Every time people post about how they don't like a story I think about the author and feel bad and hope they aren't reading what people are saying. :p

[Unblinking]

Considering how picky forumites are about stories, I'm almost glad most authors stay away. Every time people post about how they don't like a story I think about the author and feel bad and hope they aren't reading what people are saying. :p

Been there.  It is nice when at least SOME people liked it, but some specific criticism can be useful too. 

[Anarkey]

Considering how picky forumites are about stories, I'm almost glad most authors stay away. Every time people post about how they don't like a story I think about the author and feel bad and hope they aren't reading what people are saying. :p

Been there.  It is nice when at least SOME people liked it, but some specific criticism can be useful too. 

Which is yet another reason (of the many) why we aren't so excited about the "meh" commentaries.  Hardly ever useful to the author.

[eytanz]

Which is yet another reason (of the many) why we aren't so excited about the "meh" commentaries.  Hardly ever useful to the author.

They've also been almost entirely non-existent for years. Not sure what's the point of bringing them up.

I do feel bad occasionally when authors come to the forums, especially if I've said something harsh about them. I try to always be honest and proportionate in my criticsm, but that doesn't equate to being nice to read. I have recently felt somewhat bad when Millienium_King has outed himself as the author of a story I was particularly harsh about (even though I guess he's not immune from occasional harshness himself).

[Anarkey]

Which is yet another reason (of the many) why we aren't so excited about the "meh" commentaries.  Hardly ever useful to the author.

They've also been almost entirely non-existent for years. Not sure what's the point of bringing them up.

So if I offer counter examples that created a furor within, say, the last three months, you're shielded by "almost"? 

It comes across to me as a periodic and recurring topic of debate in quarters, and this seemed a good moment to remind folks of a downside, while they were putting themselves in the author's shoes, which happens pretty irregularly around here.  That may not be enough of a point for you, but it served for me.  And, obviously, we disagree about whether the horse is beaten dead or whether he keeps running the race every six months.

[eytanz]

Which is yet another reason (of the many) why we aren't so excited about the "meh" commentaries.  Hardly ever useful to the author.

They've also been almost entirely non-existent for years. Not sure what's the point of bringing them up.

So if I offer counter examples that created a furor within, say, the last three months, you're shielded by "almost"? 

It comes across to me as a periodic and recurring topic of debate in quarters, and this seemed a good moment to remind folks of a downside, while they were putting themselves in the author's shoes, which happens pretty irregularly around here.  That may not be enough of a point for you, but it served for me.  And, obviously, we disagree about whether the horse is beaten dead or whether he keeps running the race every six months.

No, my apologies, it was the end of a long day and I was tired and grumpy. The sentence you quoted by me above was stupid.

(That said, I do think I have a difference of opinion with you and most of the rest of the EA editors on the balance between how important it is for posts to be useful for the authors as opposed to useful to the listening audience. But that's a different issue and not a justification for me to be rude).

[Anarkey]

No, my apologies, it was the end of a long day and I was tired and grumpy. The sentence you quoted by me above was stupid.

(That said, I do think I have a difference of opinion with you and most of the rest of the EA editors on the balance between how important it is for posts to be useful for the authors as opposed to useful to the listening audience. But that's a different issue and not a justification for me to be rude).

Apology accepted and appreciated.  Consider it forgotten.  We all do it.  I'm glad you clarified though, because I was starting to wonder if I'd inadvertently pissed you off about something.  And if I have, PM me. 

And yeah, sure, we are standing on different sides of the table and see the forum and its need for usefulness to various parties differently.  That's to be expected.  I remember what I thought when I was standing on your side, and it's changed.  What I thought then wasn't wrong, it was just what I thought when my role was just to listen and talk about stories.

[Unblinking]

Which is yet another reason (of the many) why we aren't so excited about the "meh" commentaries.  Hardly ever useful to the author.

Good point.  For me, vague and negative criticism is not useful to anyone, but vague and positive criticism can be.

Specific and positive--"I love it because ___"  promotes interesting discussion, imparts useful information to author about how the story was taken, serves to boost the moraleof the author. 

Specific and negative--"I hate it because ___" promotes interesting discussion, imparts useful information to author about how the story was taken.

Vague and positive--"I love it!"  promotes no discussion, does not impart useful information BUT it can give a morale boost to author.  Note that if given the choice between "vague" and "specific" I would always choose "specific".  "I love this story because ____" is better than "I love this story."

Vague and negative--"meh" promotes no discussion, does not impart useful information, and gives a hit to the author morale with no benefit.

For me, one of the biggest obstacles in the writing biz is my own morale.  So far, my acceptance:rejection ratio is about 1:50 for paying markets.  That's a lot of bad news for every nugget of good news.  According to Duotrope, that's better than average ratio.  It's very easy to think about giving up and say "I'm going to do something else with my free time instead.  Nobody likes my work."  A positive response, even if it's not specific, is HUGE.  If a stranger reads your story and says "Wow, that was fantastic!" it makes a huge difference to know that you made that one person's day just a little bit more enjoyable, and for a few days at least it's a bit easier to stave off rejection depression.

[mbrennan]

Actually -- with my author hat on -- even a "meh" comment tells me something.  If I get a rave from a reader, I excited a strong emotional reaction; if I piss a reader off terribly, that's still a strong emotional reaction; if I get a chorus of "meh," then I clearly failed to excite much of a reaction at all.  I suppose a lack of comments in general translates to much the same thing (and in fact, when my own reaction to a story can't get beyond "meh," I often just don't comment), but I'm not personally offended by seeing that kind of thing.

On the other hand, I think it's quite possible that EA's anti-meh policy has fostered a more general culture of detailed commentary here, and that isn't a bad thing.

[CryptoMe]

Well that went in an interesting direction 

I must have my listener hat on, because I wasn't thinking about praising or offending the author. I was thinking about how nice it would be to have the author explain to the audience some things we may have missed or misunderstood.

As I said, I got kind of used to getting that in the Flash Fiction contest and now I'm catching myself looking for it in the regular episodes. I was just poking fun at myself for missing that aspect so badly

[mbrennan]

On that topic, I'm always leery of replying to the audience unless I've explicitly been asked a question; I'll pop in to say thanks if somebody points out, say, an error I should have caught (as my narrator-hatted self did over on the PC forum, when someone corrected a flaw in my Finnish pronunciation), but I feel like butting in to explain my story to my audience is rarely going to go well.  If somebody misunderstood a detail, other commenters can probably point it out, and if *everybody* missed it . . . I failed pretty thoroughly at my job.

[CryptoMe]

Thanks mbrennan for that perspective. I hadn't considered it from that point of view.

For my part, I generally like hearing what the author was intending, especially when there appear to be multiple interpretations being thrown about on a forum like this. But, I can understand why an author would be reluctant to join in.

[Heradel]

On the other hand, I think it's quite possible that EA's anti-meh policy has fostered a more general culture of detailed commentary here, and that isn't a bad thing.

To foster better commentary was certainly part of our intent with the ban, though from my wanderings on this digital plane I've also come to believe that Meh can be a bit of a gateway drug to the meaner depths of snark and derision. The problem has always been posts that were just meh, not the posts that said meh up top but followed it up with a few lines or paragraphs of discussion.

[Unblinking]

On that topic, I'm always leery of replying to the audience unless I've explicitly been asked a question; I'll pop in to say thanks if somebody points out, say, an error I should have caught (as my narrator-hatted self did over on the PC forum, when someone corrected a flaw in my Finnish pronunciation), but I feel like butting in to explain my story to my audience is rarely going to go well.  If somebody misunderstood a detail, other commenters can probably point it out, and if *everybody* missed it . . . I failed pretty thoroughly at my job.

I tend to agree (though I've violated that guideline probably).  If people are interested in hearing from me as an author at all, I try to stick to explanations that don't explain the content of the story, but rather explain how the story popped into my head in the first place--that's something that can't be gleaned from listening to the story itself and some people may find it interesting.

[mbrennan]

CryptoMe -- a lot of authors support the idea that the story belongs to the readers, in the interpretive sense.  Coming in on that count feels like saying, "No, you're reading it wrong," which is sometimes appreciated but more often seen as condescending, and furthermore tends to stop what may have been a lively discussion.  On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with e-mailing an author directly if you're interested hearing their own take.

Unblinking -- yes, that happened on my most recent BCS story; someone on the forums asked about the origins of Driftwood as a setting.  That sort of thing, I'm more than happy to answer.  (Though always with the awareness that it may make readers feel self-conscious, because now they *know* I'm reading the thread.)

Heradel -- well, sometimes "meh" really is all I have to say. :-)   I suppose that isn't strictly true, but all the meh-reactions generally boil down to the same thing: didn't hook me; characters weren't engaging; plot wasn't exciting; etc.  After a while I get tired of finding new ways to phrase "this failed to get any particular reaction, positive or negative, out of me."

[Heradel]

Heradel -- well, sometimes "meh" really is all I have to say. :-)   I suppose that isn't strictly true, but all the meh-reactions generally boil down to the same thing: didn't hook me; characters weren't engaging; plot wasn't exciting; etc.  After a while I get tired of finding new ways to phrase "this failed to get any particular reaction, positive or negative, out of me."

And I understand that, and have felt the same way myself. But when you get a story thread where there are more than a few meh comments it just seems to kill the thread, whereas when we require a little more people have tended to find something to argue about.

I think it's worked, but I recognize that it does place a bit of a burden on the unimpressed commentariat.