Author Topic: Titles  (Read 38041 times)

Listener

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on: December 03, 2007, 04:25:43 PM
What do the titles mean (ie: Palmer, Lochage)?  Is it homage to a work of SF that I haven't read?

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Russell Nash

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Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 04:47:55 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a couple of eps behind right now, but I have absolutely no context for this question.



Heradel

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Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 05:59:48 PM
He means this part of the alias:

Russell Nash
Anal Retentive Slob
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or in my case:

Heradel
Lochage

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Russell Nash

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Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 07:55:46 PM
He means this part of the alias:

Russell Nash
Anal Retentive Slob
Moderator

or in my case:

Heradel
Lochage


I slapped myself in the head.  Right after I posted that, but I had already started shutting down my computer and had to run to pick up my kids.  Unfortunately you got here before I could erase my post.

I went on a google safari for this back in January and came up with The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe (amazon link      ).  It's a four part book and all of these titles seem to be ranks in the story.  The fourth part is The Citadel of the Autarch and that's Steve's title.



Listener

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Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 09:53:16 PM
Indeed.  Thank you for the info.

Is this a work of SF I should know?  I'd never heard of it.

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Russell Nash

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Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 09:59:39 PM
Indeed.  Thank you for the info.

Is this a work of SF I should know?  I'd never heard of it.

This is just an educated guess.  I never asked Steve. 

The series won the Hugo for three of the books and the Nebula for all four IIRC.



Listener

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Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 10:05:31 PM
Indeed.  Thank you for the info.

Is this a work of SF I should know?  I'd never heard of it.

This is just an educated guess.  I never asked Steve. 

The series won the Hugo for three of the books and the Nebula for all four IIRC.

So, at the very least, worth reading the first one. :)

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Anarkey

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Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 12:09:44 AM
So, at the very least, worth reading the first one. :)

I would say it's worth reading all of them, but I think Wolfe's a geeeeeeenius, so it might be just me.  On the other hand, no one whom I've forced to read The Books of the New Sun (and I can be a serious book pusher at times) has ever said, "Meh, that wasn't for me."

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Russell Nash

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Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 07:56:32 AM
So, at the very least, worth reading the first one. :)

I would say it's worth reading all of them, but I think Wolfe's a geeeeeeenius,…

Is it me or did you just make a girlish squeal?



Anarkey

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Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 04:27:54 PM
I would say it's worth reading all of them, but I think Wolfe's a geeeeeeenius,…

Is it me or did you just make a girlish squeal?

Most likely.  I can get pretty excited about fiction that feeds my brain.

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Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 01:25:30 PM
So, at the very least, worth reading the first one. :)

I would say it's worth reading all of them, but I think Wolfe's a geeeeeeenius,…

Is it me or did you just make a girlish squeal?
I thought it was a pun on his name...

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eytanz

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Reply #11 on: December 11, 2007, 11:53:11 AM
I really need to re-read the Books of the New Sun. The problem with almost all Gene Wolfe stories is that they start relatively easy to follow, but become more and more complex as the story goes on. I spent most of books 3 and 4 of New Sun confused.



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Reply #12 on: December 16, 2007, 02:31:10 PM
Apparently it helps to have a latin-english dictionary handy.  I didn't, and...  yeah I was confused too.  But they're still fun to read.  How can you not like a story starring a professional torturer?



Russell Nash

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Reply #13 on: December 16, 2007, 02:37:17 PM
Apparently it helps to have a latin-english dictionary handy.  I didn't, and...  yeah I was confused too.  But they're still fun to read.  How can you not like a story starring a professional torturer?

Ben,

Nice to you see busting your forums cherry.  Hope to hear more.  If it will help, we can start a thread about corn.  It is your new interest, isn't it?



Kurt Faler

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Reply #14 on: February 16, 2008, 03:05:13 AM
I picked up the complete Books of the New Sun at the library the other day. I'm about half into the 2nd book and I still don't know how I feel about the books. Some of the prose is beautiful, but at the same time hard to follow. Sometimes when I'm reading a book and it gets to a slow part I will sorta "speed read" over it real fast but I learned early on not to do it with these books. He will slip in a major plot point as an aside it seems and if you don't make conscious note of it, your kinda screwed. I wish I could find a sort of summary/outline of each books or even chapter so I am sure I'm picking up the plot points, and don't end up like some have mentioned, confused in the later books.


edit:

Ok finished the 2nd book and things make a bit more sense now. I was just at a convoluted point when I wrote the above. I will say this tho, each books "ending" really really sucks :P
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 08:49:12 AM by Kurt Faler »



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Reply #15 on: February 20, 2008, 07:38:31 PM
Indeed.  Thank you for the info.

Is this a work of SF I should know?  I'd never heard of it.

Definitely worth reading.  One of these days I need to reread them.  They're complex and beautiful and exciting and very weird.  Also, I believe Neil Gaiman says they are among his favorite recent SF novels.

Had no idea the titles had anything to do with the books, though...


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Reply #16 on: March 14, 2008, 05:36:43 PM
Outside of the context of  The Book of the New Sun...

dictionary:
Quote
palmer
noun
historical: a pilgrim, esp. one who had returned from the Holy Land with a palm frond or leaf as a sign of having undertaken the pilgrimage.

dictionary:
Quote
extern
noun
1 a person working in but not living in an institution, such as nonresident doctor or other worker in a hospital.
2 (in a strictly enclosed order of nuns) a sister who does not live exclusively within the enclosure and goes on outside errands.

wikipedia:
Quote
A peltast (ancient Greek πελταστής) was a type of light infantry in Ancient Greece who often served as skirmishers.

wikipedia:
Quote
Matross was a soldier of artillery, who ranked next below a gunner.
The duty of a matross was to assist the gunners in loading, firing and sponging the guns. They were provided with firelocks, and marched with the store-wagons, acting as guards. In the American army a matross ranked as a private of artillery. The word is probably derived from French matelot, a sailor.

dictionary:
Quote
Hipparch (Gr. hipparchŏs). The Greek name for a commander of cavalry (see hippeis). In the Ætolian and Achæan leagues, this name was borne by an officer charged with other functions besides, who was in rank second only to the strătēgŏs.

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Reply #17 on: March 29, 2008, 06:55:29 PM
wikipedia:
Quote
A peltast (ancient Greek πελταστής) was a type of light infantry in Ancient Greece who often served as skirmishers.

So that's why the light armor in Starsiege: Tribes is called "Peltast" armor.  (Heavy armor is "Myrmidon"; medium is "Hoplite".)

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Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #18 on: March 30, 2008, 05:20:08 PM
Outside of the context of  The Book of the New Sun...

wikipedia:
Quote
Matross was a soldier of artillery, who ranked next below a gunner.
The duty of a matross was to assist the gunners in loading, firing and sponging the guns. They were provided with firelocks, and marched with the store-wagons, acting as guards. In the American army a matross ranked as a private of artillery. The word is probably derived from French matelot, a sailor.


"Matross" is also the Russian word for "sailor".

There are quite some Russian words coming from Dutch. Especially in relation to shipping terms. That's because czar Peter the Great (1672-1725) was a few times in Holland and Belgium to get acquainted with the newest scientific developments in the shipbuilding industry. In 1697-1698 he was in Zaandam and Amsterdam (Holland), and his trip in 1717 was leading him to Liège, Nieuwpoort, Spa and Namur (Belgium).

That's why the Russian language has now words like:

штурман - [sjturman] - stuurman - (steers man)
стул - [stoel] - stoel - (chair)
боцман - [bootsman] - bootsman - (boatswain)
матрос - [matros] - matroos - (sailor)

(Hope that renders for y'all if you're interested!  Fun with Pedantics!)

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Reply #19 on: April 12, 2008, 05:28:02 AM
Oooh, I've been promoted!  I'm a "Matross" now.

...of course I still haven't read "The Book of the New Sun", so it doesn't mean much to me.  Except - oooh, shiny new star!



Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #20 on: April 12, 2008, 04:43:31 PM
Oooh, I've been promoted!  I'm a "Matross" now.

...of course I still haven't read "The Book of the New Sun", so it doesn't mean much to me.  Except - oooh, shiny new star!

"Hello, sailor!"  ;)

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zZzacha

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Reply #21 on: May 23, 2008, 02:16:52 PM
"Matross" is also the Russian word for "sailor".

There are quite some Russian words coming from Dutch. Especially in relation to shipping terms. That's because czar Peter the Great (1672-1725) was a few times in Holland and Belgium to get acquainted with the newest scientific developments in the shipbuilding industry. In 1697-1698 he was in Zaandam and Amsterdam (Holland), and his trip in 1717 was leading him to Liège, Nieuwpoort, Spa and Namur (Belgium).

That's why the Russian language has now words like:

штурман - [sjturman] - stuurman - (steers man)
стул - [stoel] - stoel - (chair)
боцман - [bootsman] - bootsman - (boatswain)
матрос - [matros] - matroos - (sailor)

(Hope that renders for y'all if you're interested!  Fun with Pedantics!)

You have my attention here! I never knew Dutch had an influence on Russian. Even our 'stoel'! I wonder where they sat on before those Dutch 'matrozen' came along.
Of course, I did notice the title 'Matross' and to me, the reference was obvious. The other titles were very vague, glad to have been informed here! I was afraid it was some obvious reference to some SF literature that everbody knew - well, except me, but that can happen real easy. Things have a tendency to slide by me, so I wasn't really bothered by that.
Many thanks for the info on the titles!

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Reply #22 on: January 26, 2010, 07:00:49 PM
I noticed my title had changed so I decided to investigate the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. This thread is probably worth of sticking to the top of this sub-forum.

Plus I'll add the bit from another thread so it's all in one place.

Title       # of posts needed
Extern—0
Palmer—20
Peltast—80
Matross—160
Lochage—320
Hipparch—600

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Reply #23 on: January 26, 2010, 07:02:22 PM
What's the fun in just telling everyone the info?  Let them do some hunting like you did.   ;D

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Swamp

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Reply #24 on: January 26, 2010, 10:35:35 PM
I updated the Useful for Newbies thread with the post count/title explanation.  I should probably move that thread into the metachat forum instead of the Gallimaufry.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 10:37:53 PM by Swamp »

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