UK Ban on Samurai swords

[Russell Nash]

The UK has decided to ban imitation Samurai swords.

I just don't know where to begin on this one. 

[eytanz]

Well, I for one am all for it. I do not think people should have a right to carry weapons in public.

[Heradel]

The problem with this is that they don't actually ban Samurai Swords, just fake ones. So if you had a real one you'd be fine.

The latest Bugle has a bit on this.

[Thaurismunths]

I think you might have missed the bigger story.

[eytanz]

The problem with this is that they don't actually ban Samurai Swords, just fake ones. So if you had a real one you'd be fine.

The latest Bugle has a bit on this.

I don't know the Bugle - though it looks like something worth checking out. But I think the difference between real swords is that they are expensive imports mostly used by collectors, and the fake swords which are mostly used as an actual weapon. So I think the reasoning is that the fake swords really have no legitimate use.

But as far as I am concerned, the fewer swords (or guns, or grenade launchers) out there, the better. This is a step in the right direction, even if it is a silly one.

[wakela]

I say this is goofball government meddling. 

From the article:

The Home Office estimates there have been some 80 attacks in recent years involving Samurai-style blades, leading to at least five deaths.

Five deaths in at least two years.  How many deaths caused by cars, alcohol, soccer matches, bathtubs, tobacco...

I would say that the swords do have a legitimate use.  They are beautiful and people like them.  People like to put them in those pretentious little stands.  Besides, according to the article:

However, ministers say they have recognised there is a special case for exemptions for genuine collectors of the original weapons and acknowledge there is a legitimate role for the blades in some forms of martial arts.

So you can have a sword if you DO use it as a weapon. 

Are imitation western-style swords already banned?

Incidentally, here in Japan the fake swords are fine, but real ones are mostly illegal. 

[eytanz]

I say this is goofball government meddling. 

From the article:

The Home Office estimates there have been some 80 attacks in recent years involving Samurai-style blades, leading to at least five deaths.

Five deaths in at least two years.  How many deaths caused by cars, alcohol, soccer matches, bathtubs, tobacco...

Well, if it were up to me, I'd outlaw at least two things on that list (which is one of the reasons I think it's a good idea that it's not up to me. I'm way too authoritarian to be allowed to be in government).

[Heradel]

Five deaths in at least two years.  How many deaths caused by cars, alcohol, soccer matches, bathtubs, tobacco...

Well, if it were up to me, I'd outlaw at least two things on that list (which is one of the reasons I think it's a good idea that it's not up to me. I'm way too authoritarian to be allowed to be in government).

You really hate Football(soccer) hooligans don't you?

[Mr. Tweedy]

In the wrong hands, samurai swords are dangerous weapons 
--Vernon Coaker, Home Office minister

Yes, in the hands of actual samurai, swords are harmless.

Future British headlines:
2015: Due to a recent epidemic of injurious whackings, all blunt instruments will be banned.  This includes soccer balls and bathtubs, which are considered to be blunt by many experts.
2019: Due to numerous cases of blindness caused by gouging, all spoons and spoon-like implements will be banned starting next year.  The practice commonly known as "spooning" will also be banned, just to be on the safe side.
2025: Due to an alarming increase of bloody noses, fists measuring more than six inches across are to be banned.  All persons in possession of such fists will be required to surrender their pinkie fingers on the first of the year.

[Russell Nash]

My point with all of this was two fold.  First, all of these idiots running around thinking they're a ninja.  We've already had someone link to a list of idiots with katanas stories.  Second,  I bought a real long sword at auction for $35.  It hangs on my wall in case any evangelicals come to my door.  Since I'm not trained to be sword fighter, this heavy blade is far more deadly.  Also it's far stronger than those replica swords.  And it's legal in Britain on two counts.

[oddpod]

i am a bit down on this
agane its the idiots spoling the fun for the rest of us ,
in the past(and hopfuly future if i can find a groop) have practesed wester matal arts and suspect this bit of legislashon may the begining off the end for the study of anchent wepons in the uk.

i am also cureus as to how thay are going to deside whitch are fake and whitch are real swords, just ban cheap ones?

[Mr. Tweedy]

Russell, you are suggesting that you think people should not be idiots of their own volition?  But then what would lawmakers do all day?  If not for laws like this, politicians would have to get productive jobs that contribute to society!  They'd lose their dignity and their lavish pensions.  Better that we all be buffoons and wait for the professionals to tell us how to avoid impaling ourselves.

I bought a real long sword at auction for $35.  It hangs on my wall in case any evangelicals come to my door.  Since I'm not trained to be sword fighter, this heavy blade is far more deadly.

What if the UPS guy happens to be an evangelical?!

UPS Guy: *knock knock knock*
Russel: Hello?
UPS Guy: Package for Russel Nash.  I just need your signature.
Russel: Okay.  Thanks.
UPS Guy: Thank you.  God bless.
Russel: IEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
UPS Guy: AHH!  What are you doing?!
Russel: Die, theist scum!!  *Hack, Splat, Splat*
UPS Guy: OW!  Please, stop!  For the love of God!!
Russel: You just don't get it, do you?

[Faldor]

last year a friend of mine lost a relative to a drunken idiot with one of these things, their not talking about real swords that go for thousands, their not talking about taking them away from martial artists. They are talking about making it so you can't pick up one of these deadly weapons for £20 or £30 on a high street shop.

[Russell Nash]

last year a friend of mine lost a relative to a drunken idiot with one of these things, their not talking about real swords that go for thousands, their not talking about taking them away from martial artists. They are talking about making it so you can't pick up one of these deadly weapons for £20 or £30 on a high street shop.

The article said what, five deaths in two years?  How many died from steel pipes in that time?  Do we need to take away all plumbing supplies?  What about tire irons?  Will only licensed professionals be allowed to change tires, so we can keep these weopons under control?  Steak knives?  Dogs?  Chains?  Rope?  Steel-toed work shoes?  Lumber?  Christmas trees?  Where does it end?  The world is a dangerous place.

[Simon]

Don't I just love the American's condescension on this one...

The law has not been passed through Parliament, has only just entered discussion and has come out of The Home Office... So far this one comes under "Dog Barks" and I'll be much surprised if this manages to get through.  The British Parliament has been wary of banning random dangerous things since a fiasco in the '90s called The Dangerous Dogs Act (don't ask).

And yet here we are with "future British headlines" and "I just don't know where to begin on this one.". 

It is the job of the Home Office to suggest legislation on things that may represent a hazard, it is the job of Parliament, and the Justice department to say "NO" to the Home Office.  So far, so good...

While we're at it tho,  I'd like to point (http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40001334/) out that Britain's GSI statistics for homicide are approaching 40* lower than those in the United States.   I am quite, quite happy to live in a society where we are forced to criminalise replicas, so that the police can justify using reasonable force on someone who is in possession of a toy gun (as the only gun they can get).  This issue would obviously never emerge in the US, because your criminals have an easy, ready supply of the top-trump of offensive weapons.

So please, take your condescension away.

Thanks

Simon

[Russell Nash]

Don't I just love the American's condescension on this one...

The law has not been passed through Parliament, has only just entered discussion and has come out of The Home Office... So far this one comes under "Dog Barks" and I'll be much surprised if this manages to get through.  The British Parliament has been wary of banning random dangerous things since a fiasco in the '90s called The Dangerous Dogs Act (don't ask).

And yet here we are with "future British headlines" and "I just don't know where to begin on this one.". 

It is the job of the Home Office to suggest legislation on things that may represent a hazard, it is the job of Parliament, and the Justice department to say "NO" to the Home Office.  So far, so good...

While we're at it tho,  I'd like to point (http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40001334/) out that Britain's GSI statistics for homicide are approaching 40* lower than those in the United States.   I am quite, quite happy to live in a society where we are forced to criminalise replicas, so that the police can justify using reasonable force on someone who is in possession of a toy gun (as the only gun they can get).  This issue would obviously never emerge in the US, because your criminals have an easy, ready supply of the top-trump of offensive weapons.

So please, take your condescension away.

Thanks

Simon

Excuse us for not understanding the intricacies of British law.  The headline on BBC said, "Imitation Samurai swords are to be banned after a spate of attacks in the UK, say ministers".  It's not our fault if the BBC is unclear. 

Our disbelief was aimed at outlawing something that has killed five people in two years.  You can't tell me that isn't a complete and total waste of time. 

As far as the gun thing goes (and I won't mention the London shootings from this summer).  US law is totally out of touch with reality.  The assault weopon ban lasped this year and police deaths by gunfire have gone through the roof.

There needs to be a miidle ground between home defense grenade launchers and nobody being able to get anything more dangerous than a plastic knife.

[Bdoomed]

is it illegal in the US to carry a sword on you? like anywhere? just out in the open...?
does it have to be registered?

i want a reverse blade sword.

[Russell Nash]

OK, I split off the gun stuff.  It was a little messy, because lots of people covered both thoughts in one post.  If something relevant to this discussion got taken away with the gun stuff, feel free to repost here.

[Thaurismunths]

is it illegal in the US to carry a sword on you? like anywhere? just out in the open...?
does it have to be registered?

i want a reverse blade sword.

Yes.
In fact you can legally carry a gun out in the open with out a permit.
You are totally with in your rights to walk down the road with a pair of 6-shooters looking like John Wayne.
But don't be surprised when the cops surround you with guns drawn and book you with a dozen other crimes that aren't "Carrying a gun in public."
On the other hand, there are laws against having blades over 6", so no dressing like a samurai.

[Czhorat]

Yes.
In fact you can legally carry a gun out in the open with out a permit.
You are totally with in your rights to walk down the road with a pair of 6-shooters looking like John Wayne.
But don't be surprised when the cops surround you with guns drawn and book you with a dozen other crimes that aren't "Carrying a gun in public."
On the other hand, there are laws against having blades over 6", so no dressing like a samurai.

Depends on where you live. In New York, for example, you need a permit for a handgun. In New York City you can't carry any kind of firearm without a permit.

[Simon]

Here is The Economist on this issue

http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10286918

I always like their perspective.

[Thaurismunths]

Yes.
In fact you can legally carry a gun out in the open with out a permit.
You are totally with in your rights to walk down the road with a pair of 6-shooters looking like John Wayne.
But don't be surprised when the cops surround you with guns drawn and book you with a dozen other crimes that aren't "Carrying a gun in public."
On the other hand, there are laws against having blades over 6", so no dressing like a samurai.

Depends on where you live. In New York, for example, you need a permit for a handgun. In New York City you can't carry any kind of firearm without a permit.

What kind of permit? All hand guns need to be licensed.
But you're probably right in that there's a local ordinance against carrying guns in public.

[Russell Nash]

Yes.
In fact you can legally carry a gun out in the open with out a permit.
You are totally with in your rights to walk down the road with a pair of 6-shooters looking like John Wayne.
But don't be surprised when the cops surround you with guns drawn and book you with a dozen other crimes that aren't "Carrying a gun in public."
On the other hand, there are laws against having blades over 6", so no dressing like a samurai.

Depends on where you live. In New York, for example, you need a permit for a handgun. In New York City you can't carry any kind of firearm without a permit.

What kind of permit? All hand guns need to be licensed.
But you're probably right in that there's a local ordinance against carrying guns in public.

guns laws and concealed weapons laws differ state to state and town to town.  5n some places in the states you can't take your gun from the house unless it is disassembled and in the box.  A sword is not a concealed weapon and is therefore not part of the standard 6" rule.  Not every jurisdiction has laws against such large blades.

[FNH]

Our disbelief was aimed at outlawing something that has killed five people in two years.  You can't tell me that isn't a complete and total waste of time. 

That is NOT a complete and total waste of time. People died.  If can stop gaffawing for a moment you'll realise that 5 people actually died.  Five families.  How many others were maimed?  How many others going through life with half an intestine, a missing hand or a damaged limb.

Only passing laws if mass death is involved is far more ridiculous.

[Russell Nash]

Our disbelief was aimed at outlawing something that has killed five people in two years.  You can't tell me that isn't a complete and total waste of time. 

That is NOT a complete and total waste of time. People died.  If can stop gaffawing for a moment you'll realise that 5 people actually died.  Five families.  How many others were maimed?  How many others going through life with half an intestine, a missing hand or a damaged limb.

Only passing laws if mass death is involved is far more ridiculous.

How many died from being stabbed with broken bottles or hit over the head with lumber?  GB has a population of 59 million people, and there's talk of banning something for 2.5 deaths a year?  There have to be thousands of items that kill more than 2.5 people a year.  This is an example of blaming the item for the acts of stupid people.