Tie in with EP163: Revolution Time - The nation of Forvik and your new country

[stePH]

For my own part, I'd base my government on the Constitution of the United States, except that mine would forbid human slavery and include equal rights as citizens for women at the outset.  The Bill of Rights would stand as written, except that I would clarify the first two amendments, as much argument has been made over the supposedly ambiguous wording and/or punctuation:

Amendment I: The government shall neither discriminate against any particular religion nor endorse any above all others.  The government itself shall remain secular in practice; no laws based solely in religious doctrine shall be passed.  As in Article VI of the Constitution, no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust.
Furthermore, in the interest of maintaining a well-informed electorate, the primary function of the press should be to keep the governmental process transparent to the citizens.

Amendment II: Any adult citizen who has not been convicted of a violent crime may carry any weapon, openly or concealed, without a permit.  Use of a weapon in commission of a crime, particularly a firearm, will be punished much more harshly than the same crime would be without a weapon.

One more thing: As the justice system is imperfect and mistakes do happen, capital punishment will be expressly forbidden.  Anybody found to have been wrongfully convicted and imprisoned shall be remunerated by having a comfortable living provided (at approximately upper-middle-class standard) for at least as many years as that person was imprisoned for.  A person's freedom is not to be treated lightly.

[wintermute]

Amendment II: Any adult citizen who has not been convicted of a violent crime may carry any weapon, openly or concealed, without a permit.  Use of a weapon in commission of a crime, particularly a firearm, will be punished much more harshly than the same crime would be without a weapon.

Just so I'm clear "any weapon" includes vials of weaponised anthrax, suitcase nukes, or mounting a 70mm tank gun on your car, right?

[Russell Nash]

Amendment II: Any adult citizen who has not been convicted of a violent crime may carry any weapon, openly or concealed, without a permit.  Use of a weapon in commission of a crime, particularly a firearm, will be punished much more harshly than the same crime would be without a weapon.

Just so I'm clear "any weapon" includes vials of weaponised anthrax, suitcase nukes, or mounting a 70mm tank gun on your car, right?

Let me add Hellfire missiles and I am so there.

[edit]
Do you think I could mount a gatling gun from an A-10 on my Volvo.

[wintermute]

"What, this 5-pound block of cocaine, officer? It's a weapon. No, really - I could hit someone over the head with it. Or I could open it up, and throw cocaine in their eyes. So, if you'll give me back my constitutionally protected weapon, I'll be on about my law-abiding business."

[stePH]

Amendment II: Any adult citizen who has not been convicted of a violent crime may carry any weapon, openly or concealed, without a permit.  Use of a weapon in commission of a crime, particularly a firearm, will be punished much more harshly than the same crime would be without a weapon.

Just so I'm clear "any weapon" includes vials of weaponised anthrax, suitcase nukes, or mounting a 70mm tank gun on your car, right?

Sure.  Why not?

I'll have to draw the line at your 5-pound block of cocaine as a "weapon", although I also forgot to mention that there would be no prohibited substances for adults.  As with alcohol, there would be minimum ages for use, and strict penalties for operating motor vehicles or other heavy machinery while under the influence of such substances.  Pretty much all of the existing laws regarding alcohol would apply to other drugs in the same way.

[edit]
Coupled with the above drug policy would be a program of health education that includes study of all available recreational drugs, their effects and contraindications.  The study would avoid "scare" propaganda and outright lies (e.g., marijuana leads to heroin; hallucinogens might cause you to think you can fly and jump from a skyscraper, etc.) and instead be rooted in the truth as current scientific study knows it.  Sure, you can buy crystal meth over the counter, but you'll know exactly what could happen to you if you make a habit of using it. 

[Tango Alpha Delta]

Amendment I: The government shall neither discriminate against any particular religion nor endorse any above all others.  The government itself shall remain secular in practice; no laws based solely in religious doctrine shall be passed.  As in Article VI of the Constitution, no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust.
Furthermore, in the interest of maintaining a well-informed electorate, the primary function of the press should be to keep the governmental process transparent to the citizens.

Very nice.

Amendment II: Any adult citizen who has not been convicted of a violent crime may carry any weapon, openly or concealed, without a permit.  Use of a weapon in commission of a crime, particularly a firearm, will be punished much more harshly than the same crime would be without a weapon.

I would add something to the effect of allowing municipalities to regulate the ownership/possession of weapons. As I interpreted it, that was what the current version of the Constitution was going for... not that my interpretation is worth much these daysl

And, as an aside, can I point out something I don't get about the lofty ideals of Libertarianism?  Libertarians seem to revere individuals' rights to own guns and band together to shoot their enemies (in self-defense, of course), but when those same individuals try to band together and try to prevent the situations that would require a big shoot 'em up ("I know, let's not let people wear their guns into the tittie bar saloon... that'll keep the drunks from shooting the strippers by mistake!") they oppose their right to do so.

One more thing: As the justice system is imperfect and mistakes do happen, capital punishment will be expressly forbidden.  Anybody found to have been wrongfully convicted and imprisoned shall be remunerated by having a comfortable living provided (at approximately upper-middle-class standard) for at least as many years as that person was imprisoned for.  A person's freedom is not to be treated lightly.

F'kin-A, right, man!  To date, 218 jury convictions have been overturned by The Innocence Project folks.  (Note the recent exonoree who got a whopping $10 check for his 24 years.)

[stePH]

One more thing: As the justice system is imperfect and mistakes do happen, capital punishment will be expressly forbidden.  Anybody found to have been wrongfully convicted and imprisoned shall be remunerated by having a comfortable living provided (at approximately upper-middle-class standard) for at least as many years as that person was imprisoned for.  A person's freedom is not to be treated lightly.

Looking back at this and reconsidering, I'm inclined to make the ratio at least two-to-one.  When you lock an innocent up to spend the prime of his or her life in prison, you've got a lot to apologize for.

T.A.D. -- Seriously?  After a quarter of a century all he got was ten dollars?  That's an insult and an outrage. 

[Tango Alpha Delta]

One more thing: As the justice system is imperfect and mistakes do happen, capital punishment will be expressly forbidden.  Anybody found to have been wrongfully convicted and imprisoned shall be remunerated by having a comfortable living provided (at approximately upper-middle-class standard) for at least as many years as that person was imprisoned for.  A person's freedom is not to be treated lightly.

Looking back at this and reconsidering, I'm inclined to make the ratio at least two-to-one.  When you lock an innocent up to spend the prime of his or her life in prison, you've got a lot to apologize for.

T.A.D. -- Seriously?  After a quarter of a century all he got was ten dollars?  That's an insult and an outrage. 

As Al Gore said when alerting us to the dangers of Manbearpig: "I'm totally serial!"

That's why I included the link. 

[Windup]

Gold and silver would be the only legal tender...no tax on income...militias...The government would recognize God's existance and authority...No public education system.

Wow.  My main throught is: If the 18th century ever stages a comeback, you are sooooo ready for it.  The developed world bailed on most of this a long time ago for very good reasons. Though you can still find a lot of these institutions -- or lack of them --  in parts of the Third World.  We've taken to calling them "failed states."

[birdless]

Let me add Hellfire missiles and I am so there.

[edit]
Do you think I could mount a gatling gun from an A-10 on my Volvo.

Hellfire missiles aren't factory standard, so you'll have to go to a custom outfit place for those.

[Darwinist]

Let me add Hellfire missiles and I am so there.

[edit]
Do you think I could mount a gatling gun from an A-10 on my Volvo.

Hellfire missiles aren't factory standard, so you'll have to go to a custom outfit place for those.

How cool is that?   

[Chodon]

Let me add Hellfire missiles and I am so there.

[edit]
Do you think I could mount a gatling gun from an A-10 on my Volvo.

Hellfire missiles aren't factory standard, so you'll have to go to a custom outfit place for those.

How cool is that?   

In my nation EVERYONE would have one of those...most polite drivers EVER!
 <edited because I suck at quoting...>

[Tango Alpha Delta]

Let me add Hellfire missiles and I am so there.

[edit]
Do you think I could mount a gatling gun from an A-10 on my Volvo.

Hellfire missiles aren't factory standard, so you'll have to go to a custom outfit place for those.
<snip pic>

In my nation EVERYONE would have one of those...most polite drivers EVER!

How cool is that?   

I won't own a gun (men in my family are accident prone, and all) but I would drive the hell out of that!  Does it come in a plug-in/electric model?

[stePH]

I want a Tachikoma, like in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.



[edit]
While looking for images, I found a TAchikoma paper doll!

[Russell Nash]

Let me add Hellfire missiles and I am so there.

[edit]
Do you think I could mount a gatling gun from an A-10 on my Volvo.

Hellfire missiles aren't factory standard, so you'll have to go to a custom outfit place for those.

How cool is that?   

In my nation EVERYONE would have one of those...most polite drivers EVER!

Birdless,

Did you PS that?  Good work man.  If I send you a picture of my suburbian tank, can you PS it up for me?

[Chodon]

I want a Tachikoma, like in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.



[edit]
While looking for images, I found a TAchikoma paper doll!

Is that one of those crazy Japanese toilets that talks to you while you're going and then wipes for you?

[wintermute]

In my nation EVERYONE would have one of those...most polite drivers EVER!

Yeah, that whole "an armed populace is a polite populace" thing doesn't actually work that well in practice. My utterly unscientific experiment of spending time in Britain, Japan and Texas demonstrated that nicely. I've never been to Somalia, but I hear that, despite everyone who can afford one carrying a sub-machine gun, manners are sketchy at best.

I honestly believe that if everyone had gatling guns mounted on their cars, you would see a lot more aggressive driving. Also, highways would be impassable because of all the bullet-riddled cars.

[Chodon]

In my nation EVERYONE would have one of those...most polite drivers EVER!

Yeah, that whole "an armed populace is a polite populace" thing doesn't actually work that well in practice. My utterly unscientific experiment of spending time in Britain, Japan and Texas demonstrated that nicely. I've never been to Somalia, but I hear that, despite everyone who can afford one carrying a sub-machine gun, manners are sketchy at best.

I honestly believe that if everyone had gatling guns mounted on their cars, you would see a lot more aggressive driving. Also, highways would be impassable because of all the bullet-riddled cars.

I agree, weapons are not a factor in the manners (or lack thereof) of any culture.  I meant it as a joke.  Sometimes jokes/sarcasm just get mangled during their transit through the interwebs.

I don't adding weapons to the vehicles would make a culture more violent, however.  Unarmed cultures can be just as violent as armed ones (reference: my unscientific citation of the Rwanda genocide, when most murders were committed with machettes).  Some cultures (including the United States) are just more violent than others.

[stePH]

I want a Tachikoma, like in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.

Is that one of those crazy Japanese toilets that talks to you while you're going and then wipes for you?

No; follow the link.  It's a tank.  We were talking about vehicles with weapons equipped, which reminded me of the Tachikoma.

[wintermute]

I'm not sure I'd say the US (in aggregate) is more violent that Britain, though it does have tools that make that violence more efficient. I do think that America is less polite than Britain, with Texas being less polite than the majority of America; and drivers in America are generally more aggressive than those in Britain. I don't know why this is the case (and no doubt there are a hundred different factors) - in fact, I don't know if the effect is real, or if it's just my personal biases combined with non-representative experience - but I suspect that people who carry weapons (be they knives or guns) are less likely to be concerned with causing offence than people who don't.

[wintermute]

I want a Tachikoma, like in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.

Is that one of those crazy Japanese toilets that talks to you while you're going and then wipes for you?

No; follow the link.  It's a tank.  We were talking about vehicles with weapons equipped, which reminded me of the Tachikoma.

It's a giant walking toilet with guns!

[birdless]

Birdless,

Did you PS that?  Good work man.  If I send you a picture of my suburbian tank, can you PS it up for me?

I did. Thanks!

Yeah, send it on, i'd be happy to! But try to get that same angle on your tank as the one in the photo. I only have two good A10 images to work with. I'll try to find some hellfire missles that'll work, too.

[Chodon]

I hate to spoil your fun, Russell, but a real GAU-8 will never fit.  Here's a size comparison:



Birdless' photoshop skills are epic though.  One can always dream.

[birdless]

Ha! Thanks! You may be surprised at how easy something like that is, though. That took about 30 minutes, and there's plenty to nitpick about it. I was wondering if anyone would call out the disproportionate size of the gun to the car. Plus, placement of the gun where it is on the car would cause the gun to go through both wheel wells and stick out of the top and back of the trunk!

I'm guessing the size comparison that i'm not seeing on Chodon's post is this one.

[Russell Nash]

I noticed all of that.  Nevermind the weight and that the recoil would completely destroy the car.  The A-10 was built around that gun.  The A-10 is my all time favorite plane. 

The Willow Grove airstation outside of Philly had a squadron.  When I was in the area and had time I'd stop at a convienience story grab a drink and just sit and wait for some to fly by.  They'd be landing or taking off, so they were really low.