EP269: Élan Vital

[Scattercat]

Given that they'd only recently discovered how to use non-family members to revive people, I'd say the reason they can't use animals is the same reason we don't have cyberarms and gene-grown custom organs despite having discovered the rudiments of that technology.

I liked this story a lot, even though I didn't expect to once I'd figured out the speculative angle.  (Around about the line regarding "still cold," I think.)  It was really good, and that's all I have to say about that.

[Devoted135]

Overall, I liked how this one made me feel more than liking the actual story, because it was so light on actual plot. However, I thought that the mother/daughter relationship was beautifully described, and we got to know them (especially the mom) quite well in such a short time frame. I was also troubled by how dependent the daughter was on her mom, but I guess it's hard to know how I would react in the same situation. Wouldn't I want to be able to bring my mom back too? Hard to be certain that I would choose the (healthier) road of grieving and moving on.

It's funny, for the first time ever, a few minutes in I found myself wondering why this story was on escape pod since it took longer than usual to reveal the sf parts involved. I never care about whether the story is science fiction-y enough! Maybe you guys are rubbing off on me? 

[Prophet]

Ah I see. Thanks Unblinking, that makes total sense. And Scattercat, I forgot about that discovery mentioned. Implies that the original requirements were even more narrow.

Works for me.

[AliceNred]

Love the link to the magazine where the story was first published.

And Mur Lafferty's reading was soft like a well-warn quilt. Lovely.

It is hard to think that anyone would not be touched by the story. The story got me right away because I use to take my mom for her kidney dialysis. It was heart wrenching to see my mom perish in bits at a time.

Unlike the daughter in the story, I was there for almost everything but her death. Personally, I was grateful to not be there. Wiping up the blood, pee and picking-up the paraphernalia from the paramedics was more than enough.

I thought  this was a great concept for a story and was done extremely well. There was a lot of truth in those words. The best fiction always has a lot of truth in them.

[iamafish]

I first saw the title of this story and thought it would be some steampunk re-imagining of the French Revolution or something (on a side note i really want to read a steam punk re-imagining of the French Revolution). Inevitably I was disappointed that it was not. That being said I did really enjoy the story.

I am a massive sucker for characters and character driven stories, so this one really worked for me. I found that I really connected with both characters really well and sympathised with their points of view. I liked how they both seemed to see the error in their ways and the resolution saw the amendment of those errors and the resolution of the conflict caused by those errors. I did however have a problem with motivation. The daughter's relationship with her mother was an incredibly dependant one; more so that one would usually expect. I would loved to have seem the reason for such a relationship explored as it would have made her self-harm (let's face it, that's what it amounts to) seem more believable.

As for the lack of science; I have never had a problem with this in sci-fi - fiction for me is much more about the characters, so the setting only really exists in my mind to offer context to the plot and enrich the story (not that it can't also influence and drive the plot). As a fan of fantasy as much as (if not more so) than sci-fi I have no problem with the science being ill explained. I'm happy with talk of life forces and resurrection. If the plot and the characters are interesting enough, it really doesn't matter if the sci-fi elements work in the context of modern science.

One minor thing: It was slightly jarring to have Mur doing the intro and also reading the story. I prefer to have a change of voice when we switch to the story. That being said Mur did a fantastic job of reading this one. I especially liked the slight southern drawl on the mother's voice - reminded me of The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

[DaveQat]

Wow... This story hit about 12 different kinds of nerves, probably primarily because I lost my mother to a blood/bone cancer last year. We also had a lot of unfinished business when she died, and while I don't know if I'd go as far as the narrator did to get closure, the thought did cross my mind as I read the story...

I couldn't sympathize with the main character, and so didn't feel a connection to the story. Perhaps if I were shown why the narrator was so pathologically attached to her dead mother I could have empathized, but as it stood I was alienated by what seemed like some weakness of character.

I'm not going to go so far as to call you an insensitive jackass, but, well... I'll say I'm glad you don't have any long-simmering emotional problems with members of your family, and that their too-soon death wouldn't leave you with a lot of lingering pain and questions, and leave it at that.

[Calculating...]

Did this creep anyone else out?  This story just scared me, I love my mother, but I don't think I could give up years of my own life, the ability to have my own children, just to prolong my mother's life for only a little while longer.  The mother was also selfish, agreeing to this deal that would steal years away from her daughter that she "loved so much".  She knew what the process would do to her daughter, and yet she agreed to go forward with it, or rather she didn't object to it until she saw what she was doing to her daughter.  This whole story gave me the creeps, not so much with reanimating the dead, but rather the complete selfishness and total disregard for other people

[iamafish]

I'm not going to go so far as to call you an insensitive jackass, but, well... I'll say I'm glad you don't have any long-simmering emotional problems with members of your family, and that their too-soon death wouldn't leave you with a lot of lingering pain and questions, and leave it at that.

That seems a little harsh.

If your implying that the protagonist did have long-simmering emotional problems, then it needed to be shown in the narrative, or else the reader/listener has no reason to assume the mother/daughter relationship is anything other than a usual one, whereas I found the protagonist's actions somewhat abnormal. Such things warrant explanation.

[KenK]

I couldn't see myself sacrificing my life or health to prolong someone else's even a loved one. People are living things. Living things die. Being aware of that fact doesn't make it easy to take however. I get that. The only (and I mean only) way I'd do something like this is if there was some kind of greater good involved  that would be accomplished. Like if Mom needed a few more months to finish a cure for AIDs , complete a masterpiece work of art, or some similar accomplishment that would justify my sacrifice. Otherwise, to paraphrase Dean Winchester: "What's dead should stay dead - didn't you see Pet Sematary?" (And yes I know he is a total hypocrite as far as following his own advice goes.)

[Scattercat]

I'm not going to go so far as to call you an insensitive jackass, but, well... I'll say I'm glad you don't have any long-simmering emotional problems with members of your family, and that their too-soon death wouldn't leave you with a lot of lingering pain and questions, and leave it at that.

That seems a little harsh.

If your implying that the protagonist did have long-simmering emotional problems, then it needed to be shown in the narrative

Relevant.

[El Barto]

For many years I felt strongly that every person should have the right to die.  Then a wonderful professor helped me understand that if the law says that we all have the right to die at the time and way of our choosing, such a law not only bestows new freedoms on those who might want to control their ultimate destinies someday, but also FORCES that decision on huge numbers of people who may otherwise not have wanted to make the decision  . . . and are suddenly confronted with family and societal pressure.

That opened my eyes to the other part of the equation.  Not just those lucid folks who didn't want to suffer excruciating pain for a final miserable week of a terminal disease but the sick grandmother in the hospital who wants to live a few more years but feels pressure to pull her plug preemptively to spare her family the pain of watching her deteriorate or the financial burden of caring for her.   

What I liked about this story was how it chillingly highlighted the burden of that decision and how hard it may be for many adult children to avoid harming themselves in order to continually reanimate their parent from time to time.

The parent-child bond in this story was pretty simple and straightforward.   Can you imagine if this concept really comes to life someday?   How it will lead to huge numbers of bizarre situations, both wonderful and horrible?

Lastly, as for the concept of elan vital, I would have preferred that the author not included it as a physical manifestation (a la midi-chlorians).  It would have been cleaner and more poetic to have the daughter's repeated donation of bone marrow (or something else) simply shorten her lifespan, and to let the title of the story speak for itself.

[KenK]

Unless they're a ghost Barto, I don't see where the pressure would come from? In the story I mean.

[Anarkey]

"Why us but not animals?" is at least one question raised by the 'tech' in this story

This was one question that I could not get out of my head while listening to it. It did not make me like the story any less. It was just a nagging nit-picky buzz in the back of my brain.

I'd guess that it has something to do with genetics.  Maybe the "elan vital" can be extracted from animals, but it's not compatible with human bodies, any more than a blood transfusion from a pig. 

Was there not a line in the story about the revival of rich people's cats?  Did I dream that bit?

[Ocicat]

Was there not a line in the story about the revival of rich people's cats?  Did I dream that bit?

Nope - it was mentioned before the bit about using relatives.  When that was brought up I started wondering if they needed to use closely related pets too.  I can just see pro breeders keeping some lower quality stock for that purpose...

[FireTurtle]

Wow. Talk about timing. I lost my grandmother a week ago. She died at home after a brief illness and we all experienced the joy of seeing her pain along with the devastating trial of obeying her wishes to let her die at home and always wondering if something could be done to give her more time.
This story captured that feeling completely although it got there in a
somewhat circuitous fashion.
It was a fascinating study of human grieving.

[yicheng]

I had trouble relating to this story, until I thought about what if my daughter was dying and this was the only way I could see her every year.  To be honest, I'd probably spend every last year of my life for that procedure.

[contra]

I listened to this story while shopping.  I ended up at the end in the milk section tears streaming down my face and christmas shoppers generally trying to avoid me.

I loved this story.  For those who don't know the pain of losing a close loved one; I can see how you wouldn't understand this one, or even if you are just a different type of person to the daughter in the story.   But as someone who lost their father very young; given this choice and knowing the side effects, I can't honestly say I wouldn't make the same descision the daughter made.  

And a side note it raises massive ideas about that society in the future, where life itself becomes a currency, be it clearly an unfair one.  

[Equalizer]

This story really spoke to me, more than I expected it to. This year, a friend of mine died from cancer. She was only 26 and passed away two days after her 6 month anniversary. Her husband is my best friend and most likely always will be. They had been dating for a few months when they got the diagnosis. Then he did the bravest thing I will ever experience in my life, and asked her to marry him. They got married a few weeks later, and the rest is history. The timing was unfortunate, because I was in school and couldn't spare the time to go to their house. Even when I did, it felt like I was just making up for the lost time when I used the "school" excuse. I only visited them once during the time she was on palliative care, and to this day I torture myself for that fact. Just like the main character in the story, I always wanted to be there when anything at all happened, but just wasn't. Thanks for posting this one, Mur.

[KenK]

Clearly this story touched a lot people just like death does. In the end it will "touch" all of us. Trying to "beat death" is unnatural and Sisyphean task. A path that leads to no good place.

[Bdoomed]

I can't say I related too much to the daughter in this story.  Personally, I find it kind of selfish to keep bringing back her mother, sick and dying, constantly.  I don't know, maybe I have a waaay different outlook on death than others.  I've had *does a quick count* seven dogs die in my life, some more dear to me than others, as well as my grandma die of cancer, and an uncle of a heart attack.  I've also taken Vonnegut's views on death to heart, that the past and future are always happening, and therefore loved ones are still alive at some point in time, and I am spending as much time with them as I ever will or will ever need or want to.  After all of this, I guess I'm pretty desensitized to death.  I'd be heartbroken if my parents died, but there's no way I'd ever think of bringing them back in a situation like the one in this story.

However, the story itself was very nice, well written, and touching.  I just don't relate (but who says I have to?)

[Unblinking]

"Why us but not animals?" is at least one question raised by the 'tech' in this story

This was one question that I could not get out of my head while listening to it. It did not make me like the story any less. It was just a nagging nit-picky buzz in the back of my brain.

I'd guess that it has something to do with genetics.  Maybe the "elan vital" can be extracted from animals, but it's not compatible with human bodies, any more than a blood transfusion from a pig. 

Was there not a line in the story about the revival of rich people's cats?  Did I dream that bit?

I don't remember that specifically.  But I'd still guess the same thing about compatible genes.  Presumably a cat has to be drained to revive another cat.  And I can see profiteers creating puppy mills or kitty mills for the sole purpose of draining the animals to prolong millionaires' cats' lives.  Or perhaps draining cats that would otherwise be euthanized at the pound.

[LaShawn]

I had the distinct pleasure of reading this story in Sybil's Garage, so I already knew how it would go about. Listening to this made me think to a Lightspeed story I heard a couple of weeks ago "Standard Loneliness Package" by Charles Yu, which had a similar premise of people taking on other people's pain for money. The idea that those with money would pay people who need (or want) money for strange services is an interesting trope I've been seeing a lot of lately. I would like to see a story from a point of view of a rich person who is taking advantage of these services. How will it affect them knowing that the person they're paying is taking the brunt of what that rich person should be experiencing? Just a thought.

As always, great reading from Mur.